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Comment by paxys | Hacker News Reader

Is anyone really surprised? Did you think the end result of the WFH movement was going to be companies continuing to pay you to live out of your Bay Area house?

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Anecdotally, in my circles, most truly thought that this won't have an impact in the compensation levels. Always struck me as incredibly short-sighted and your comment is actually the first I see that explicitly states what I thought as well.

There is still an argument that, if you truly want top talent, then that top talent might actually want to live in high COL locations like NY or whatever.

In the US maybe, but there is plenty of top talent in Hyderabad, Bangalore, Pune etc. A couple decades ago they would have all been lining up to immigrate to the US, but with the impossible visa situation and a thriving local startup scene no one really wants to leave anymore.

There are a lot of great labor in India, but great does not come cheap. Cheaper than the bay area, or even the midwest, but still not cheap by world standards. You can pay engineers in Germany for similar or less in total compensation. (but good luck finding them)

Yeah but you have strict labour laws in Eu, which basically dont exist in india. This is wet dreams of the corporations.

For great labor it doesn't matter as great engineers know they can demand better treatment. For a average engineers you can get by with a lot more.

> no one really wants to leave anymore.

According to what exactly?

This may be true, but finding these workers will be much more difficult. An American with a CS degree from a state school is a known entity, more or less. Someone with a 9.5/10 GPA from an Indian school is a question mark.

I've had private equity people tell me prior to the pandemic that if a job can be done from home, then it can be done from India. It basically makes sense to me. I know the common rejoinders about time zones (which ignores that there are plenty of cheaper countries south of the US) and culture/language, but I suppose we'll see if the FAANGs can overcome those issues; many companies have gone before in this regard.

It's one of a few reasons I prefer in person work.

For small companies it can be hard finding the "right person" and retaining them remotely in India - but for large companies they've worked out many of the kinks and issues and it's quite powerfully productive now.

Anyone who ignores that is falling victim to "how it used to be" not "how it is now" - just like the American car manufacturers who slept on the horrible but improving Japanese manufacturers decades ago.

> I know the common rejoinders about time zones

Cheat code: most engineers in India will agree to work US hours if they're compensated accordingly. "Compensated accordingly" is still well below even the lowest US engineering salaries, and still in the top 1% income percentile in India.

But this doesn't make sense because there's been outsourcing for over 20 years by now and this is clearly not true. And having somewhat better tools for teleconferencing doesn't materially change the situation.

> Anecdotally, in my circles, most truly thought that this won't have an impact in the compensation levels.

I mean, even if it does, it’s not that big of a deal. Fewer people propping up a ponzi scheme of a real estate market that tries to soak up as much surplus as it can get its hands on

Also, fewer incentives to remain in the US with its shitty excuse of a health care system and public school system

Edit: and shitty life expectancies in the US as well compared to developed countries. Also shitty work culture

Might want, yes, but there is probably more top talent in the world than available housing in those high COL locations.

I would be expect the result to be zero because companies respond to financial incentives, not cultural "movements". Do you really think driving to an office will stop this?

No people thought they could cash Bay Area paycheques while working from low cost rural areas with WFH.

There is one advantage to Bay area when WFH: you can go into the office on request. I go into the office every 3 months or so - it is only a 7 mile bike ride. Sometimes things are better handled in person (I don't live in the Bay area). WFH with the ability to get into the office in a couple hours is valuable. Once you cannot get into the office easily if you need to you are worth less even if the need to get into the office is rare.

If you need to go to the office once every 3 months you can fly in from anywhere in the country. No need to live within commuting distance for that.

I cannot fly and be there with 2 hours notice though. Sometimes flights are full and you can't get there at all with less than a few weeks notice. Often you can, but the cost for same day tickets can be very high.

Planning months in advance is done all the time, but it is hard. It is always easier to plan if you can look at the current most urgent project list and pick the top item. if you have to plan what will be on top in a few months that is a lot harder.

To me the biggest advantage of WFH is that I can choose to live in an area that fits my lifestyle and needs. If a company says "you can work from home but be near the office so that we can call you in whenever we want with zero notice" then that isn't really a remote job. In fact it is the worst of both worlds, because you lose the flexibility of being remote as well as the community and perks of an office.

If "near" is a couple of hours that seems far better. Rather than spending 15-20 hours a week commuting you pop into an office once or twice a month, costing an average 2 hours a week, perhaps avoiding rush hour too.

There are lots of in betweens i'm not going to call any right or wrong, just that whf with fairly quick access to the office is a useful one.

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