Comment by mdip | Hacker News Reader

Comment by mdip | Hacker News Reader

Something the author alluded to but didn't call out specifically is the "I'm already a customer" problem.

I can only really speak to Amazon and Facebook (via the web) because my uBlock configuration nips almost everything else, completely[0], and most advertising from those sites, as well.

But when an advertisement does slip through, it is frequently for a service I already subscribe to or a product I already purchased. In the latter case, I've had times where I've purchased something on Amazon and had the same product show up within a few minutes of the purchase as an advertisement on Facebook. So ... that was wasted marketing spend.

On the flip side of that, I'm certain Amazon knows who my girlfriend is and correlates our searches. There have been a handful of times when I was discussing gift ideas and she'll pull up a product and hand me her phone[1]. Sure, they pick it up when she sends me a link from the app or does some other action that can be correlated (i.e. we're both on the same WiFi, our phones are both reporting the same location[2]) but it's happened enough that I've started paying attention. On one occasion, she handed me her phone, we had no other digital back/forth and my phone was charging in the car (off, because I let the battery die). Later that evening, I'm on my laptop and that product was on the home page. There are other explanations, sure, but it'd be pretty easy to see that we frequently share one of two IP addresses when visiting their sites and start tracking those accounts as affiliated in some way for gift-giving purposes.

[0] I see product recommendations on Amazon and for some reason more than a few sponsored posts and the like on Facebook -- I don't use their mobile apps.

[1] I really, really hate using mobile apps.

[2] I don't actually know if the Amazon app tracks location ... I don't have it.

// FWIW: I really did laugh out loud at "Statistical Astrology" and I'm positive I'll be using that statement in the future.

The reason it sent that ad to you despite your phone being off and charging in the car is because the shadow profile has already linked you and your girlfriend together prior to your phone dying.

Your phone does not have to be on anymore for you to see stuff your girlfriend looks at. Once they've made a statistical connection (and your phones keep regularly reporting from same IP for the foreseeable future) you will get the ads she looks at if they seem relevant to target to you as possible gifts/things-to-buy.

I sat through a corporate "ads data pipeline" info-session from Google for my company. You do not want to know the level of architecture pumping away in the background that collects and correlates disparate data about you together. It's actually shocking how robust and complex it is. Trust me, I've seen it, they know almost everything about you consumption/location/device wise.

>You do not want to know the level of architecture pumping away in the background that collects and correlates disparate data about you together. It's actually shocking how robust and complex it is. Trust me, I've seen it, they know almost everything about you consumption/location/device wise.

I do, and I suspect many others would like to know as well - please share!

> You do not want to know the level of architecture pumping away in the background that collects and correlates disparate data about you together.

I absolutely do want to know. Specifically, I want to know which countermeasures to employ to deny them as much information as possible or, failing that, to feed them fake data that reduces the value they get out of me.

Unfortunately, you will never win this game unless you go full "dark mode" and route your traffic through various VPN's, use anonymous browsing tools for every session, only use a rooted non-standard Android/iPhone, never use any kind of location services ever, etc.

If you want to have a standard iPhone/Samsung device, like using Google Maps, or use social media in any form on your devices, you've lost. They know everything about you and attempting to keep your data secure from them is a moot point.

That being said, I still use things like ad blockers, private email (non-Gmail), and prefer iPhone over Android, but I'm just picking my poison really. It's game over, these ad people largely already won.

You can make it a little bit harder for them to generate a model of you, but it will still eventually happen even if you have zero contact since all your friends/family will give them enough info to reconstruct you into their system.

Heck, even your credit card is snitching on you. Taking your kids for ice cream and leaving your phone at home does nothing, they still know where you went.

> If you want to have a standard iPhone/Samsung device, like using Google Maps, or use social media in any form on your devices, you've lost.

I totally disagree with this point. I went "dim." A few years ago (turned off all of Google except gmail), don't use any social media, route my (and any visitors on my home networks) traffic through Cloudflare, etc...but almost nothing worked. There wasn't a CAPTCHA that I could get through, because every HTTP request seemed to be coming from a different source.

I've been slowly and cautiously turning the lights back on, and the experience has been great. YouTube only recommends shit I actually want because it mostly knows only the things I've explicitly saved into my playlists (history is turned off...I don't have privacy there or with what I'm watching, but the experience is dramatically improved, even if I do occasionally fall for some clickbait).

I can highly recommend going dim. You can objectively say that you don't actually have privacy, but you can be dark enough that the capital surveillance network just doesn't bother with you.

Ah, I see where you're coming from. I didn't mean you can't improve your experience by doing what you're doing. I more meant there isn't really a way to end the surveillance and the tracking.

I also meant to direct my comments more to a general crowd. The majority of people out there are not going to do anything remotely close to what you are doing to avoid unwanted advertising and tracking.

I applaud what you're doing, good on you, but I don't think it's really reasonable for even most tech-folks I know who "just want an iPhone with apps that work". It's unfortunate there isn't an easy option to go "dim" as you say without lots of effort and setup.

> Specifically, I want to know which countermeasures to employ to deny them as much information as possible

They gather data from all kinds of sources outside of their direct realm. Credit card companies, DMV records, etc.

To counter it, you have to stop leaving an electronic trail with anyone. Pay only cash. Don't register a vehicle, etc. In other words, you can't escape it without disengaging from society entirely.

But even if you can't eliminate the data flow to these companies entirely, it's absolutely worth reducing it as much as your tolerance for inconvenience allows.

15k developers aren't working on fb user interface to say it like that

I'm surprised there's no open source registry of people who work in ad tech.

> Trust me, I've seen it, they know almost everything about you consumption/location/device wise.

I also know the truth of this, and it makes it all the more remarkable that they're so bad at targeting ads regardless.

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