Harvard students' anti-Israel letter: Israeli billionaire Ofer, his wife resign | Hacker News Reader

Harvard students' anti-Israel letter: Israeli billionaire Ofer, his wife resign

nypost.com

24 pointsborissk25 comments

Wow, this bullying is unreal:

>Ackman enlisted the support of at least a dozen business executives who vowed to never hire students who are members of the groups that supported the statement.

Is that bullying? Or just common sense?

It seems these students are at best idiots, or at worst giant jerks. But either way exhibit really poor judgement and most employers value judgement in their positions.

I don’t think student behavior should follow them their whole life so a lifetime ban is probably not a good idea. But would you want to hire someone who signed such a statement?

Or affiliate with a school that supports such organizations?

Criticizing Israeli government equals support for Hamas? Isn't it possible that both sides in a conflict are in the wrong?

That's a mischaracterization of what the letter said. It explicitly said that Israel was entirely responsible for the unfolding violence.

That's the cause of the backlash since while it can be acceptable to say that what Israel has been doing to Palestinians is wrong, nothing should justify terrorism.

If you're saying that Israel deserves all the blame, you're saying Hamas is blameless, thus supporting Hamas.

IMO it's messed up that this is going to follow those kids for many years in their careers, but on the other hand, most of these kids have probably harassed others with the "free speech isn't freedom of consequences" bs too.

Israel does deserve all the blame for the bombings of infrastructure, hospitals, and civilians in Gaza.

And let’s make no mistake, what they are doing is terrorism on a much larger scale.

It’s quite different to target an innocent civilian and another to destroy a hospital because that’s where hamas launches rockets from.

Intent matters quite a bit.

When Hamas stars criminally prosecuting its soldiers for killing and raping civilians then you can start talking about how Israel and Hamas are similar.

But equating Israel incidentally causing civilian deaths with Hamas purposely is not helpful to the conversation.

Turns out that when you drop large explosives in dense urban environments civilians die. To knowingly do that makes it quite intentional.

Also you might want to reevaluate your moral compass if you think bombing a hospital, especially when they are so limited, is ever okay.

If someone is firing rockets from within a hospital, how would you stop that?

When has Hamas launched rockets from within hospitals?

Of course Israel bears responsibility for how they respond to the terrorism perpetrated against them, just as Hamas bears responsibility for the terrorism in the first place. However, what Israel is doing is war, not terrorism.

Unlike Hamas, Israel's target is Hamas members and not random civilians - many not even Israeli citizens - who were enjoying a music festival. There will be civilian casualties in what Israel is doing, but it's fundamentally different from terrorism as the civilian deaths are not the primary goal.

Edit: Are you trying to push the unreasonable interpretation that by saying "unfolding violence" the students were referring to Israel's response rather than what Hamas did?

War is terrorism. They are bombing a densely packed civilian area knowing it will kill civilians. They disabled water and electricity. That’s not war, it’s terrorism. They are inflicting suffering on civilians purposely.

Also yes that is what I am saying and no it isn’t unreasonable just because you say so.

> War is terrorism.

> That's not war, it's terrorism.

Which is it?

> “We, the undersigned student organizations, hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence,”

Not with that wording, it isn't.

Plus for what's worth I spent the past week researching stuff about Gaza, and my opinion went from "yeah, the Israeli are definitely jerks here" to "this whole mess happens because a minority of palestinians just refuse to admit they lost". Which sounds like an admirable thing, except surrender is what makes societies function. Take away surrender, and all fight is to the death. I stopped blaming Israel.

They are holding the Israeli gov't responsibile for the violence that is to come in Gaza in the next days (already started). Your argument that surrender is what makes societies function is absolutely wrong, otherwise it would be applicable in places like Ukraine.

It absolutely is applicable to places like Ukraine, and hopefully will be applied there when the time comes. In Ukraine it is not yet obvious who will win - not only each side thinks they have the advantage, but pretty much most outside observers agree that it's still undecided.

Think about other similar large wars: France surrendered in ww2. Later Germany did as well. Each of those failed to turn into a decade long blood bath. Then Vietnam - US left, the south lost, and Americans are now moving there for retirement.

No, if you release such a letter in the vicinity of such an attack, it is pure anti-semitism. They deserve a scolding for that. I am not for prohibiting their careers, student can be stupid some times, but this should not be accepted under any circumstance and it is pretty embarrassing for Harvard.

“We, the undersigned student organizations, hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence," doesn't sound like the students think both sides are to blame.

Particular criticisms, certainly. I read the paper and it claims that all violence is entirely the fault of the Israeli government.

That’s poppycock.

I think that both sides are in the wrong in that mistakes have been made. But to say Hamas is chopping up ravers because of the Israeli government is not only incorrect, but, even worse, stupid.

I’m typically not one to complain about “tone deaf,” but it reminds me of someone standing on George Floyd’s corpse and saying “all lives matter.” Of course all lives matter, but that’s not the point.

Israel and Palestine doing dumb stuff for 50 years, yes. People excusing Hamas’ behavior because of Israel, ridiculous.

Yes. It does equal that in this situation.

It's the only sane thing to do. I would hate to hire someone and only later learn how abhorrent their view of the world was.

This is not a simple political disagreement. This is supporting the worst form of terrorism.

As a lot of people like to clamor when the shoe is on the other foot: freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of consequences.

A lot of people are also ignorant of the chilling effect: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/chilling-effect-overv...

Is it bullying if he vowed to never hire students who support Hitler? How is this different?

Earlier article about the Harvard students' letter: https://nypost.com/2023/10/09/thirty-one-harvard-organizatio...

Ballsy move.

A JDAMS or laser-guided bomb delivered by attack aircraft would have created a large crater in that parking lot and significantly greater damage. What does Israel gain by targeting a parking lot with a precision weapon costing thousands of dollars. That explosion was caused by a failed rocket launch from the cemetery near the blast site. God loves idiots and fools so much he created zillions of them.

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