Hacker News Reader

Comment by autoexec | Hacker News Reader

This is why I love wired headphones. Even if I lose them, I can replace them quickly for a lot less than $250 and I never have to worry about syncing or batteries or disconnecting or any of the other problems that routinely plague bluetooth devices.

View on HN

They do indeed have a lot of nice features:

- Intuitive pairing interface

- Built in lanyards

- Excellent bass response

- Standard connection protocol

- Infinite battery life

- Unbreakable encryption

Wires can be great. Unfortunately it seems like high quality wired ear buds are getting harder to find: a lot of distributors seem to have swapped them out for the wireless version of the same product.

> Unbreakable encryption

All wired earphones I have ever used had a line connect which is analog and completely unencrypted. What wired earphones have you had that where encrypted?

The advantage here is that you need a physical connection to decrypt the content.

Not if you have a good microphone and the sound is loud

That's not a failure of the protocol but of the user. It's like saying PGP for email can be broken if you have a telescope to look at the user's screen.

I wonder if there are attacks based on RF emissions along a cable to get the sound

Yes, there are. You can even get video signals from a video cable.

Eh... If your adversary can break modern bluetooth encryption, I probably... would not bet on this? I would think that with appropriate radio equipment you can probably pick up audio from many wired headphones.

bluetooth encryption has been broken before. "KNOB" (https://www.usenix.org/system/files/sec19-antonioli.pdf) was less than 5 years ago. The kind of equipment that could pick up the audio over a wired headset from across the room could probably pick up something from the speakers of wireless earbuds too.

I think the GP meant that in theory someone could break into a Bluetooth connection and snoop on your phone calls. But with a wired headset, there's nothing to break into. "Unbreakable encryption" is a bit tongue-in-cheek, there.

> there's nothing to break into

Wired headphones are giving off EMI of the signal they're playing, one could sense that signal with the right equipment and know what you're listening to remotely.

The worst thing about bluetooth headphones is that people who use them subject everyone else to their awful microphone quality while either oblivious or in denial about the fact.

I've reviewed old meeting recordings, when my notes were not clear/complete, and after getting over what I sound like generally (an issue on any recording device!) I sound clearer than some people who are using wired headsets. I'm actually using a bone-conduction headpiece (Shokz OpenRun, a friend has some from a different manufacturer and he sounds fine too when using them for a phone call) so it might be even more surprising that I sound reasonable.

If someone does have a problem with how I sound then they can buy me a decent wired headset, or just stop inviting me to remote meetings that I don't want to be in anyway :)

Shokz products work surprisingly well and the sound has also gotten a lot better. I commend them for keeping to the same formula and iterating on it. The microphone was better than the Sony headphones last time I tried them.

My comment was unnecessarily inflammatory, apologies for that. I do concur about unnecessary meetings!

I would add what is probably the #1 benefit, IMO: zero lag.

Hi-end wired in-ears / headphone won't go away anytime soon thank god. Having firefly dac and sennheiser ie-900 in addition to AirPods would give you access to Apple Music hi-res lossless on the go. The only problem is - after having used AirPodsPro 2 my tolerance for street noise is extremely low and noise cancellation kind of competes with reference sound reproduction features in a lot of products I think.

> harder to find

Get into IEMs (in ear monitors), there's plenty to choose, with different sound signatures and excellent sound quality. Most IEMs also have detachable cables!

> - Intuitive pairing interface

Yes. They always connect to the exact device I wish them to connect to and not some other device, thus forcing me to play the bluetooth shuffle game.

I mean sure, those upsides are nice, but don’t you hate it when your wires get a knot in them? Ruins your whole day.

Totally worth having to deal with charging, fiddly volume controls, losing them, and the complexity and power usage needed to transmit audio to them wirelessly, to eliminate that possibility from ever happening again.

I bought wireless headphones (for $20!) because I got tired of getting tangled up in the cable and yanking the headphones (or my phone) away when cycling, and never looked back.

Definitely the killer feature of wireless headphones I'd say. Although I bet if you used some kind of easy break magnetic connection like Apple used to have on macbooks you could get a lot of the same utility back with wired.

Not really, because I'd still have to have a wire flopping around and when it does get snagged I lose my audio. Its still not as good as just not having a wire at all.

I can pair my headphones to my laptop, start playing something, and then walk all around my house without any interruptions. I can't do that with wired headphones, I'd have to carry something around with me everywhere I go. I can walk around the room without issue. I can quickly get up and go make some food in the kitchen without interruption. I can answer the door and sign for a package. All kinds of things that don't require me to then change to a different device, restart some stream there, etc. Its just freedom to get up and move.

There are pros and cons, sure. But AirPods are actually very nice.

"I dropped my wired headphones into a sewer" is likely not a very common occurrence. In fact they have a built-in anti-sewer lanyard... Unlike AirPods which fall out of your ears continually.

Wired headphones used to drop much more frequently for me - cables get snagged and headphones yeeted. Cables used to last much less than wireless.

I snagged my wired headphones and ripped my phone out of my hand, which then detached and hit the concrete.

That said, I use wireless over-ears which are also very unlikely to fall in a sewer unless you live somewhere with open sewers

And replacing wired headphones will run you ... what fraction of Airpods' cost?

If you're not especially partial to quality, $5 to $25 will get a replacement set. Roughly 10% of the cost of Apple's kit.

You can easily buy lanyards for your airpods pro.

I'm glad there exists an accessory for purchase that turns your $250 wireless earbuds into $19 wired ones.

My comment was meant sarcastically even though such accessories exist.

There is a lot more to the AirPods than the fact they are wireless. They sound great, good noise cancellation, and very comfortable to wear for long periods. I am amazed how short-sighted many of the comments here are. You cannot find a cheap wired headphones with anything close to the overall comfort and quality of Air Pods.

Well, when one product costs 10x as much as the other does, I would expect it to be a nicer product. But for me, it is not even possible for a product to be so much better as to justify that price increase. Headphones have exactly one use case for me: listening to music (or playing a game on a handheld device) when in public, so as not to disturb others. So we're talking 1h max of quick and dirty use. All the features you mentioned don't actually add any utility for my usage.

The KZ ZSNs are on par for audio quality

Sorry, but cheap chi-fi IEMs easily beat them. Other response says KZ ZSN, but that's not really that. I've recently got Moondrop Chu 2 (a ~ $25 budget IEMs) and they're amazing. The case is aluminum, they're quite small and comfortable to wear (should be fine for smaller ears) while fitting snugly into the ear giving good, passive noise isolation, the wire is very soft and fits neatly around your ear preventing them from being pulled out. If you break the wire, you can buy a replacement one following the 2 pin standard. If you wish so, you can get a cable with a microphone - even worst buds have better mics than any true wireless buds can currently deliver.

Seriously, air pods advantage is just being wireless and having some software features like ANC (they're good overall, but that's nothing special). If that is not a killer feature for somebody, they're just really overpriced ok set of earphones.

Automatic handoff, conversation awareness, transparency mode, and how they work on calls are the killer features for me. I also have IEMs and appreciate good quality audio when that's what I'm looking for, but I see my AirPods as serving more of a utilitarian purpose. They're not for active listening, they're for exercise, working from the cafe, taking a long call while cooking a meal, etc.

If your earphone price range is $19 then those things will indeed not be the right choice for you, that's true. But there are wired earphones which cost 10x as much as Airpods, so your statement only shows your bias.

I've had my AirPods Pro for 3 years and they have never once fallen out of my ears, but I don't wear them while biking or running or anything like that.

But like I said, they are very nice. I've had probably 100 headphones over the years and these are the ones I enjoy the most. They are indeed a nice product.

> Unlike AirPods which fall out of your ears continually.

If you genuinely have that problem you're doing something very wrong with your Airpods when many of its users are able to do long walks and runs without them ever budging.

I wear mine to the gym, on hikes, long runs etc - I can confidently say I have never, ever had them fall out in 3 years of ownership.

That is a bit too harsh, his ears may not be the right size or shape. I have had a lot of problems with AirPod like headphones and had to try several models before I found ones that don't fall off.

Maybe you are talking about different things? The normal AirPod has a fixed shape - it either fits your ear canal or it doesn’t. You definitely should try it out before buying it.

The AirPods Pro has changeable sizes, so it really shouldn’t fall off anyone’s ear.

But it does.

So maybe it isn't a perfect product.

I haven't tried the AirPods yet and the shops around here (remote Atlantic islands) don't have an unboxed pair for me to try. From my experience the Pro models would work fine but the other models will probably fall when I am doing work in the woodshop or doing yard work. I have maybe three or four in ear headphones lying around that didn't fit the bill. For some people, that type of headphones don't fit.

Couldn't get my AirPod Pros to stay in with any of the tips I could find. Tried silicone, foam, all shapes and sizes, different amounts of pressure and depth in ear, but nothing worked. They'd just slowly creep out and eventually drop out, especially if I spoke.

Regular 2nd gen AirPods are like glued in though, I could headbang or do handstands and they wouldn't go anywhere. Go figure...

In my experience the fit can be very dependent on the precise orientation in the ear. When I get it right they almost never fall out, when the angle is off a bit they hold for a few minutes at most.

> That is a bit too harsh, his ears may not be the right size or shape.

Correction: his ears have perfectly right size and shape. The thing which might not have the right size and shape is the Airpod. We do not fit ourselves to human made objects, but the other way around.

Read as: "My ears happen to be of the right size that AirPods fit inside them without falling out, and if your ears don't conform in that way, you must be a broken human."

> you're doing something very wrong with your Airpods when many of its users are able to do long walks and runs without them ever budging

It's a product relying on friction fit with a body part that's shaped differently on every person, what makes you even consider the individual user is at fault?

Also in my experience Airpods require a very precise orientation in the ear to really hold well. If the angle is a bit off they can fall out within 30 seconds, if it's exactly right I can listen to music for an hour without any issue. But I can't eat or drink in that time as that almost guarantees they'll slip out, and lying on my back is also not a good idea apparently.

Those things are otherwise really cool devices but this is definitely a problem. I've seen a YouTube review where the guy said he's on his third pair by now.

Airpods and similar shaped earbuds just never fit well in my ears. I couldn't tell you why. But unless they're like IEMs with molded fit pieces or those rubbery cones that dig in deep like hearing protection, they're going to fall right out of my ears.

I don't like earbuds, I avoid them. They're great for other people, and that's awesome, but they're not for me.

Now, where have I heard that before? ...

<https://uxdesign.cc/youre-holding-it-wrong-how-to-blame-the-...>

<http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/mobile/06/25/iphone.problems.re...>

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8972707>

Not everybody stands in-ear headphones for long periods of time (the other ones are much easier to handle for me). Maybe this was an issue only with Airpods 1 but still, earbud types or over-ear are more comfortable

Best of both worlds: I got a Fiio BTR 5 [0] and now headphones become "wireless" when I want. Plus, use them as HQ DAC on your laptop or phone in non-wireless mode.

[0]: https://www.fiio.com/btr5

i have one of these and the smaller btr3 as well. i really love that you can use them while theyre recharging as well

My rule is use wireless headphones for phones and wired headphones everywhere else. For a phone, the phone is in your pocket a lot, and having a wire from your pocket to your head is a pain, and you have to untangle it and whatnot.

For a laptop or desktop, the computer is open in front of you. The pairing and unpairing process to turn wireless headphones on and off is 5000x less convenient than just plugging headphones in. You don't need batteries for wired headphones and they never accidentally are connected or disconnected at the wrong time.

The physical difference of the two scenarios makes a big difference. Also maybe someday they will make a Bluetooth software stack that doesn't suck, but it hasn't happened yet.

are you under the mistaken impression that the cheapest pair of wireless earbuds is $250?

Well, I did honestly think that was what a pair of airpods cost. Apple isn't known for being cheap. Apple's website says they want $170 for "AirPods (3rd generation) with Lightning Charging Case" though so I don't know what you have to buy to pay $250 for pair when you already have a charger!

I also assumed that non-airpods were not an option because most people who have airpods only have them "because apple".

I mean, airpods aren't known for being the best when it comes to sound quality compared to other bluetooth options. Even Macworld thinks beats sound better (https://www.macworld.com/article/550796/beats-fit-pro-review...). Beats as in "Beats by Dr. Dre" which are also well known for being expensive and stylish while under-delivering in terms of quality. I'm not even an audiophile, but I've seen it said over and over again that you can get more for your money if you're willing to avoid overpriced status symbol brands.

That's a small irony given that Apple owns Beats as well.

You can currently purchase 3rd gen apple AirPods for less than $100 on Amazon

Sounds entirely legitimate.

Actually I looked closer, and I cannot see any such thing.

In fact, even refurbished 2nd generation AirPods are $93: https://www.amazon.com/Apple-AirPods-Charging-Case-Renewed/d...

Sorry just checked, you’re right I mixed them up w 2nd gen.

https://a.co/d/g8IRO8W

> This is why I love wired headphones. Even if I lose them, I can replace them quickly for a lot less than $250 and I never have to worry about syncing or batteries or disconnecting or any of the other problems that routinely plague bluetooth devices.

I switched to bluetooth because I always broke my wires. however, I still manage to break wires in the bluetooth headphones (and I don't like the earpod type)

This plus a Qudelix5K is my headphones endgame at this point. I can’t stand TWS earbuds for many reasons, but having the ability to apply DSP tuning to whatever headphones I plug in, and still have “wireless” freedom has been great.

Not sure why the price is relevant here, I use wired headphones and they’re (moondrop variations) about 500 USD.

They’re also less convenient since I “need” an external dongle to drive them and a lightning to usb adapter.

Basically there are trade offs both ways

Reply on news.ycombinator.com