The plan to demilitarize Gaza together with Egypt, Syria, Saudis (2014)
timesofisrael.com
timesofisrael.com
What happened? Why does Israel always go it alone? All the collateral damage and civilian deaths build up until they squander any sympathy support they have.
This is Israel’s 9/11. After 9/11 the US had a lot of international sympathy and even invoked Article 5 of NATO and formed a coalition before invading Afghanistan to get Bin Laden. (They ended up squandering all the good will they had, occupying afghanistan for 20 years, invading Iraq and causing 1 million excess deaths… but for a while there the coalition-building effort paid off.)
Why not speak at the UN and build a coalition to engage Hamas together? Urban warfare is not easy and civilian casualties have a way of shifting public opinion. Take a look at how Azov went from being branded terrorists to national heroes after Mariupol.
By sharing responsibility as a coalition, it would be harder for Syria, Hezbollah, Iran and others to justify attacking Israel. Israel’s government could avoid escalation and safeguard Israeli civilians. Why do they somehow always go it alone, and get all the blame alone?
Terrorist organizations like Hamas simply help them along in this regard; their attacks only provide further justification for military action. Very few in the West think critically about whether Israel's actions are proportionate. For example, their blockade of Gaza includes food--is there any other country that can get away with starving children in retaliation for a terrorist attack?
> By sharing responsibility as a coalition, it would be harder for Syria, Hezbollah, Iran and others to justify attacking Israel.
There is no rationality or sense or good faith to the actions of those actors either. Ultimately, I think they likely believe Israel's existence to be sufficient justification for violence, which is of course simply unreasonable and not a workable basis for the fantasy of diplomatic or peaceful resolution to this conflict.
But even if Israel wants to go scorched earth on Gaza, why not bring friends? Why not have Egypt invade from the rafah crossing side and share the blame? Even from the perspective of not giving Hezbollah and Syria and Iran an excuse, and safeguarding Israeli lives, why not accept help? It’s not like the terrorusts are going anywhere, they’re trapped!
I want to know what happened to the proposals that neighboring countries have advanced in 2014 and why Israel always goes it alone. The more I observe politics during wartime the more shocked I am at the apparent sheer stupidity of the politicians. Is Hanlon’s razors appropriate here?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip
Gee, why don't they want it, or its citizens, or to open the border now? The border was open a couple years ago.
Oh, wait. Gaza elected Hamas, who backed the Muslim Brotherhood, who sent terrorists to overthrow the Egyptian government.
Hey - how come the "Palestinian refugee camps" in Jordan and Lebanon are full of the grandchildren of people who can never and will never be allowed visas or allowed to work in those countries? The "Palestinians" exist only as a bullshit made-up group of Arabic people who the countries all around Israel refuse to accept into their population, and instead preferred to use as a lever for international support.
Preferred being the key word here. Now that it is no longer to their benefit, they have no more interest in the Palestinian "cause". But they can't integrate and make citizens the Palestinians or else they would be admitting a large group of terrorists [strike that; Extremely angry and misled people] to their already fractious / fragile societies. The Palestinians are left as a permanently used sub-class in all other Arab countries.
Why should responses be "proportionate" when an enemy wants to murder you? The proper response it so decapitate them, not to respond "proportionately".
Just FWIW: You are finished. It doesn't matter if the Western media sings your praises now. You know, they still sing the praises of the Lakota Indians. You think they give a shit? The west doesn't care and you'll be forgotten very quickly, steamrolled into the Israel/Saudi detante. This is the end, so leave if you can. Abandon the notion that you will have Israeli houses and land. It's not going to happen. Go to Qatar or Iran and get a job, or else work toward a Palestinian state that does not require the murder of Jews in their homeland.
I don't want to see any deaths of civilians in Gaza. But Israel needs to accept the reality that the world will never like them. The world found plenty of reasons to hate Jews before Israel existed, and they will always find reasons. To survive, you don't need to ask permission. The only course of action is to terminate Hamas completely, regardless of civilian cost, while trying to maintain whatever level of humanity is possible. You cannot respond to this with anything less than obliteration of the regime that authorized it; and if that extends to Iran, then so be it.
You dont need permission to survive, but if they act without restraint or proportionality, countries will find their friends turning to enemies, and that they have become worse that those they fight.
There is no way to terminate Hamas completely, because it feeds on Palestinian resentment and Israeli violence. Why do you think it attacked- Its not like they had a chance or even a plan of holding territory.
The only way to obliterate Hamas completely would be for Israel round up every Palestinian in Gaza and put them in gas chambers, then go after the diaspora.
Hamas's goal is the total destruction of Israel, removal or death of all Jews, and (their) fundamentalist Islamic rule over the "river to the sea". None of that is required for a successful Palestinian national movement. Certainly it's not the aspiration of every Palestinian in Gaza, who are largely more oppressed by Hamas than they are by Israel on the daily.
But Hamas does have a plan. You're missing it, because it's based on an absurd belief of theirs. They believe that if they can make living in Israel too scary and too costly, the Jews will leave. That's what this is about.
The funny thing is, the Arabs actually have somewhere else to conceivable go (i.e. the country of Palestine, which is called Jordan). The Jews do not.
But when you look at the attack from this perspective, you see the logic of the attack - and of filming their own crimes for maximum terror.
Israel can't eliminate Hamas because their goals and plans are already detached from reality.
No amounts of defeat can make them give up, because the real chance of "victory" doesnt even come into the calculation.
Any goal or plan for victory over Israel is just a delusional pretext for revenge - it doesnt have to withstand the scrutiny of reality.
As long as there are angry Palestinians seeking revenge above all else, Hamas will continue to exist. There is no possibility of militarily destroying Hamas, because they intentionally embed themselves in the civilian population; and by doing so, the collateral damage from every fighter killed creates new ones to fill their place.