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Comment by oldstrangers | Hacker News Reader

Everyone talking about getting rid of tipping is weird to me. I enjoy tipping... It's a privilege to have someone waiting on me, and I want them to know I appreciate it.

EDIT: These replies are wild. Everyone should be able to make a guaranteed living wage (at minimum). Of those in the service industry, I enjoy being able to show my appreciation with a tip. Pretty simple.

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Almost anyone coming from overseas to the US thinks it's pretty weird that the US has permitted the creation of a class of workers who can be paid dirt and must live off the gratuities of an informal societal expectation.

Why on earth you've not got strictly enforced mandated minimum wages in many places, where the wages are above the poverty line and there should be a low to nil expectation that as a customer I'm having to reach in to my wallet to pay for their services when I'm also paying the business seems abhorrent.

Tipping should be something that is an exception for exceptional service, and an unexpected act of good will, rather than an expectation.

They still are guaranteed to make minimum wage: if the tips + salary don’t pass the minimum wage threshold, the employer still has to pay the difference.

That is a meaningless rule when you can get fired for not making enough tips.

Another aspect is customer is expected - no "required" to tip.

They almost certainly will be fired. At every restaurant I’ve worked at, the servers made well above minimum wage. If some server is not getting tipped, then management will assume they are doing a horrible job. And I’m not talking about fancy restaurants, just casual places like Red Robin/Applebees.

And then they eat at absolutely any restaurant in the country, and are doubly confused at how the US service employees are so cheerful and helpful and etc.

It fulfills some function, whether or not it's +EV.

So do you apply this rule for everyone who does something for you in your daily life? Do you go into the kitchen and tip the cooks? What about the person who grows the food, and the one who drives it across the country? Do you tip the bus driver and subway train operator who took you to the restaurant? It should be a privilege for you to tip all of them.

There are millions of people "waiting on you" every day so you can live your life comfortably. There is really no logic behind why the pretty waitress deserves tips and everyone else doesn't other than the fact that you grew up with this practice and so it seems normal.

> It's a privilege to have someone waiting on me, and I want them to know I appreciate it.

It’s only a privilege in the same way that any other commercial transaction is. You’re already paying them for a service. Do you care whether the guys operating your local power plant know that you appreciate your electricity?

Sure, I hope everyone is able to feel appreciated for the work they're doing, it's a very human desire.

Hopefully your are on your way to tip the power plant workers. Make sure to tip security and the cleaners on your way in as well.

Its very telling when this is the kind of equivalence someone tries to make about service industry workers.

The act of physically SERVING someone and answering to their every whim is a unique role in society. If you lack the empathy to comprehend that role, then that's on you.

Tipping is not equivalent to empathy. You show empathy by being polite and thanking the person. And in a properly functioning country you can know that the staff are properly paid at least a minimum wage which is sufficient to live properly.

No one said tipping was equivalent to empathy... I said your inability to comprehend the difference between a service industry position and a "power plant worker" displayed a lack of empathy and understanding.

There was an anti-tipping movement in the interwar period in the US, on the basis that such a relationship of explicit subservience and having one's compensation for work subject to the whims of a master is un-American. I tend to agree.

By "interwar" you mean between the Civil War and WWI? Because it was a movement then. Between WWI and WWII (what I would read "interwar" to mean) the anti-tipping movement receded and tipping became commonplace.

I meant between WWI and II. I wasn't aware of the earlier movement. I first became aware of it watching the 1936 film version of The Petrified Forest, which features anti-tipping as a minor background element, and has a contemporary (to its release) setting—the play it's based on was published in 1934.

As I understand it, you were seeing the last vestige of the anti-tipping movement (just based on the timeline) in the movie. A few states even had anti-tipping laws before WWI that disappeared during the 20s.

Interesting, I'll adjust my internal timeline of those events to match reality :-) Thanks.

Is it weird to expect employers to pay employees? It’s the waiter’s job to wait tables? Or am I missing something as I’m from not-US?

No that’s perfectly normal reasonable.

What’s weird is that for some reason there happens to be just enough people in the US that believe and demand that I have the responsibility as a customer to take care of an employee’s wage negotiation, payroll and in some cases “productivity metrics”. Thus we end up with this stupid “debate”.

No, that's a given. In addition to that, I appreciate being able to tip them.

But it's not a given in places where tips are used in lieu of a portion of the wages. In that case, all it is is a gift to the business owner.

It's a privilege to have any service done for you, not just waiting tables.

You are free to give them extra money if you feel that service received exceeds the price that you paid for but it shouldn't be mandatory.

Customer should pay for products and services that's agreed upon. Employer should pay their employees to ensure the quality of the said products and services. There's no reason why a quality of service should be variable based on how generous I feel.

In the places where I am immediately able to tip, I do. Coffee shops, bars, salons, tattoo artists, valets, servers, furniture movers, you name it, I've tipped them.

I think the difference is that I get a tinge of embarassment having anyone wait on me. There's a weird power imbalance I don't like. Tipping helps offset that imbalance and lets them know I appreciate their service.

> It's a privilege to have someone waiting on me, and I want them to know I appreciate it.

If that's what tips indicate, I'd be with you. But it isn't. Tips are expected, and in a sense culturally mandatory. That removes them entirely from being an indicator of appreciation.

Also, tips are now being demanded by pretty much everyone, not just for personal service.

Wasn't considered a "privilege" when I served coffee and pizza from behind a counter at 3am to drunks for no tips except the occasional loose change, that was shared among workers.

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