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Comment by raverbashing | Hacker News Reader

> But if I fail to report 138000 USD in earnings I’d still be in for a world of hurt: First the tax authority would take about 100000-200000 USD from me. Then I’d be prosecuted for tax fraud

And where in the world do you think this would not be the case? (except maybe in 3rd world countries with bribable authorities)

(such a fine of 100k is probably on the higher end for most places though)

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> And where in the world do you think this would not be the case?

I think their point is precisely that this Chinese case might be more similar rather than different to the rest of the world.

> (such a fine of 100k is probably on the higher end for most places though)

In neither the Chinese case nor on the Swedish case does it seem to be a fine. It's rather a confiscation of illegal earnings, which is then followed by an actual fine.

Confiscation of owed income tax - sure. But the earnings? That's draconian. It's not illegal to work for foreign companies, even in China.

Sweden goes further than most western countries in this case though. For example, the European Convention on Human Rights prohibits dubble punishment for a single crime. Most European countries interpret this to mean that you can be either criminally prosecuted, or administratively sanctioned with "extra tax", but not both. Sweden however has a fondness for doing both.

So in Sweden a very realistic scenario in this case is that this guy goes to prison for half a year. During that time the tax authority decides he owes 100000 USD in taxes, and 100000 USD in "extra taxes". Whether he has the money or not is irrelevant. If it's more than he made, that's irrelevant. And the interest on those 200000 USD is 18.75%.

Also, you can't declare personal bankruptcy in Sweden, so this guy is essentially turned into a slave of the government: whatever money he makes is taken from him, except for a very small amount necessary to "exist". If he is a good slave for five years, his debts can be discharged. If not, then he's stuck in this situation forever. It's game over, economically.

Also, Sweden probably has a more efficient "bailiff authority" (Kronofogdemyndigheten) than most countries. So game over really is game over. They will come to your home, with the police if necessary, and take everything of value there.

Thats actually horrifying.

The lack of bankruptcy is especially scary.

> Also, Sweden probably has a more efficient "bailiff authority" (Kronofogdemyndigheten) than most countries. So game over really is game over. They will come to your home, with the police if necessary, and take everything of value there.

This might be a bit of silly question: but if someone were to “stand their ground” and try to defend themselves (with weapons they somehow obtained / 3D-printed / etc.) I imagine the Swedish authorities also wouldn’t hesitate in gunning that person down, right?

Sure. If you raise any kind of weapon to the Swedish police you can expect to be gunned down, regardless of circumstances.

You are overthinking. Why don't you simply marry into Tetra pack, IKEA, or Wallenberg families?! I doubt any bailiff dares to even send them a letter.

I have a friend in Sweden who is in the situation you described because of debt accrued by his father. It really is insane. I won't pretend I have any understanding of Swedish law but afaik in just about any other western country you can simply declare bankruptcy and you're more or less a free man once again.

Well to be fair, it's pretty common in EU that you can't bankrupt your way out of taxes, mandatory insurance, fines and other government fees.

This especially bites you in the states with mandatory universal health insurance scheme. The payment is based on your income in a given month/year - e.g. 30%. If you can't pay, your problem... Then, since you're in debt, they are not paying for your treatment. And there is no way to get out-of-the-system private health insurance, it simply doesn't exist. Hospitals have to treat you but the full price of treatment is added to your debt, no discounts are possible. People from the US never realize there are dark parts of the universal healthcare systems too. At least you can bankrupt out of your hospital debt in the US.

This is the reason why people just don't start business here. As an employee you're "safe" - the employer deducts your insurance payment from your wage and that's it, you're not investing into anything, not planning any cashflow.

In most of EU, the tax authority first asks you nicely to fix your mistake, and only if you don't, they confiscate the owed amount plus a small fine (given that it's your first offense and they don't see it as intentional fraud).

I used to have my life in serious disorder and they confiscated the owed tax three times from me. Never got fined more than $100, though I had to call and apologize the second and third time to have it reduced from ~$500.

Yeah, you're paying the tax owed, not much way around that unless you have allowed deductions or something else

But the higher fines/criminal charge are usually for very, very egregious failures to pay

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