Hyundai’s future EVs will also have Tesla’s EV charging port | Hacker News Reader

Hyundai’s future EVs will also have Tesla’s EV charging port

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30 pointsmfiguiere27 comments

it was so annoying to suffer the fools who loudly complained about tesla roadblocking a universal charger while ignoring the fact that NACS was way better than the alternatives

I mean if Tesla wasn't offering it to other companies to use, then that's part of the thing. Things changed, and now things are better. Progress!

a small part…

"Let's have a universal connector"

"The biggest EV manufacturer does not want to change their connector"

"OK so let's use theirs"

"..."

This is why we talk about blockers

The only way this would constitute a "blocker" is if they actively prevented every one else from using the same connector due to patents etc... I don't know whether that was the case, but simply "not wanting to change their connector" doesn't mean they are blocking progress. They were the first to roll out massive charging infrastructure. I would say it was silly of the other manufacturers to not standardize on what was already there.

Their patent sharing terms say that they get rights beyond patents or copyright: if you use their patents you agree not to copy any of their "designs," a vague term that no one can really be sure of how expansive it is.

Huh? If it’s vague then no way the patents can be enforced. Tesla’s competitors are both cash rich and litigation happy themselves

You misunderstand: (at least some of) Tesla's patents are likely enforcable. It's the terms under which they can be used in the "patent sharing agreement" which are vague and quite expansive (which is quite possible to enforce in contract/licensing law, and the courts are willing to take very extreme positions on in business to business cases), and that is why no-one has engaged with it.

> I would say it was silly of the other manufacturers to not standardize on what was already there.

it seems silly right now, but letting your competitor own a platform for which your business depends is folly, unless there's regulation on that platform.

That is why Tesla has handed NACS to SAE to formalize it as an independent standard free from encumbrance.

Now. This only happened in November.

June actually. This year

> The only way this would constitute a "blocker" is if they actively prevented every one else from using the same connector due to patents etc..

I'm pretty sure that was the case up until recently, hence the whole hubub

NACS still requires the CCS signalling and protocols. They are slow and unreliable.

For example, if your car has the wrong date and time set, then the TLS connection won't establish and you won't be able to charge.

Would be nice if they start including GPS in these cars to get accurate time

The car also has certificates from the manufacturer, and those certificates have a maximum 90 day validity. The charger has to verify the certificates before providing power. Some but not all chargers let the car have internet access to renew the certificates from a manufacturer server.

Effectively, that means if your car manufacturer goes bankrupt, you lose charging ability 90 days later. Same if you only charge in places without internet connectivity.

Great, we finally have DRM for refueling cars. EVs are becoming such a disgusting anti-consumer power grab.

Damn, I thought a solar array and EV were the way to go for a zombie apocalypse too.

It will work fine, the standard is only for fast chargers.

Tesla's charger was proprietary so other manufacturers couldn't use it. Meanwhile CCS is an open standard that anyone can use.

What's changed is that last year Tesla decided to publish an open standard. Now that other manufacturers can use the plug, they gave agreed to use Tesla's physical plug design, but with the CCS signaling protocol.

So NACS going forward is more of a new hybrid of the two rather than a switch to Tesla's existing charger. One of the outcomes is that cars equipped with CCS will be able to use NACS with a simple adapter.

Why not use Tesla's signaling protocol? I don't know the details. Maybe Tesla isn't ready or able to create an open standard for that part. Or maybe other manufacturers want to keep the signalling they have to keep adapters simple. In any case only one vehicle and charging station manufacturer (Tesla) will have to make updates on the software side, and to people who don't know the difference between the plug and the software it'll look like Tesla won the charger war.

The signalling is similar to Chademo which is CANBUS. CCS is PLC

NACS already uses the CCS signaling protocol, and always has - Teslas have been able to use a dumb adapter to plug into CCS chargers for years.

Oh, interesting! I'm not the most up-to-date on this, but I don't think I was all wrong about what I said. My understanding is that cars with CCS adapters currently cannot use Tesla chargers (except the Magic Dock ones), but Tesla now says they will change the signaling so that soon CCS cars will be able to use Tesla chargers with an adapter.

One of my sources is, https://www.cnet.com/home/tesla-superchargers-will-soon-work...

AFAICT "NACS" is a new thing as of November 2022. Maybe it's basically a renaming of Tesla's existing thing. But the shift to NACS includes important details around published specs and interoperability.

Sure, when it became an accesible standard it was better. A better technical solution that couldn't actually be used by other manufacturers is not an actual solution, so until Tesla actually put up people were right to complain (similarly about Tesla's chargers not supporting other vehicles). For a long time Tesla talked a big talk about pushing EVs as a whole forward while doing their very best to fragment the charging ecosystem as much as they could. It was very right to complain about that, it's probably part of why they have actually brought their actions in line with their words.

I would pay for a retrofit kit

[dupe]

More discussion over here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37782534

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