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> What else can I do? appreciate any ideas..

Try harder to have your 4y old avoid screen time?

Play with their peers, construction toys like Lego, 3D puzzles (physical, not computer based), gardening, painting (using paint & brush, not an app), music, swimming, take kid out in nature or to zoo / musea / maker fairs & such... there's so much to discover & do in this world.

Electronics & computers have been in my life like 'forever', but I didn't start with that until ~8y.

Have your kid enjoy the "physical" world as long as (s)he can. Screen devices will come soon enough through other routes like school.

I understand what you're saying, and I would caution the same to anyone asking the question I asked. But, my kiddo is very outdoorsy and spends more time outside than inside anyway.

While at home and playing with us, he already does exactly what you listed!! construction toys like Lego, 3D puzzles (physical, not computer based), gardening, painting (using paint & brush, not an app), music, swimming.. check check and check! :-)

There is still room for more, and I thought I could bring him into my world as wishes... he wants to "work like Daddy" sometimes, and instead of letting him watch Youtube vieos at that time, I'd like for him to explore "his" computer and have fun with it a bit.

My kids also wanted to have a laptop because they saw me working on one and wanted to do the same thing. So we made some out of cardboard, drew a keyboard and screen on it, and they played with it.

I get that isn't what you are asking, and I'd have a different answer for you if they were a couple years older. But it is worth considering if they really want a laptop, or just a laptop-like object to play with.

Thanks. Yes, it is the idea of one more than the thing itself. I realize might be tad too early, and perhaps my excitement jumps the line a bit.

I'm sorry, but I feel a 4 yr old does not need a laptop.

What they need is: 1. Your attention 2. Other similarly aged children to play and socialize with 3. Exposure to nature, soil and sunlight from time to time

I know the risk of this being downvoted, but I feel strongly the urge to say this.

The laptop you use together is the best laptop for your four year old.

The most important thing you can do for your child is spend time with them.

Good luck.

I will roll the dice with my answer. I'm sorry if it seems trite or dismissive of your concerns, I'm well intentioned!

Alright, thinking back to the fun I had thrown in the deep end with passed-down ex-work computers from my father: IBM 8086 and the MS-DOS 3.1 manual, and later on a 286 running Lotus Notes and some nifty File Explorer thing which I cannot recall the name of now--I was a bit older than yours, but I'm trying to adapt!--I would:

- throw the little tiker in the deep end (to some extent) and give him something he can figure out (and thereby take a feeling of ownership, mastery, and achievement over-- that is what you'd like to pass on and instill, essentially, yes?). this was my more practical suggestion. next I'll hit you with my slightly more zany, out-there one...

- get him a (cursed) old IBM ThinkPad or Toshiba. rock solid. Can take a beating. Got some miles on it. And old. Like so old that he has to use older software. Hear me out. I think that, if you plan a whole succession of machines over time to upgrade him in to (when the time is right), you can basically give him a "re-experience" of the development of tech, over time. Ideally, you'd be able to select a single machine that you could (depending on your inclinations and 'pain tolerance' perhaps), "expand" with him overtime by tinkering with the hardware to upgrade it to successive generations. Tho that may be overly-ambitious (for anyone!) and more trouble than it's worth. But I think there's good to be had in seeing the natural progression (Same way that a good physics or math course will take you through the derivations and historical context).

Anyway, I'm probably overthinking this, and I'm sure you have a bunch of your own ideas that are way better than this anyway, but just wanted contribute my little share in the hope that it helps you and he! :)

You could start instructing him in the intuitive nature of Emacs.

Back it up regularly. It's going to die, quickly. It's going to get a lego shut in it, or stepped on, or dropped, or used as a baseball bat, and everything they have on it is going to be lost. If there's any data that they will miss, back it up.

Think well about what happens after it gets broken. Do you get them another? Every time they break it? Or do you let them suffer the pain of no longer having it? For how long? There are consequences of any decision you make here, consequences that may shape them for a longer than you might expect. No way of shaping them is free from downsides, so think well about how you're going to handle this.

Thanks. Yes, I’ll keep that in mind. I might be jumping the timeline a bit here, and he is probably too young to even understand the value of what he is given. I think I will wait a little longer and then give him his first to get his hands dirty in this world.

I did partially deal with broken things and how he deals with his emotions. For the most part, I don’t rush to replace broken toys or things and let him process sadness, disappointment and yearning to a reasonable degree. But, I also show him how to fix things instead of looking to either find anew or chase after the next shiny. Perhaps I think more about these for his emotional development him than he does :-)

Any reason an iPad wouldn't work?

My kids first computers were:

1) iPads - essential for YouTube

2) Alienware Alphas + cheap 1080p displays on a desk so they could play Minecraft

I let him borrow my ipad every now and then, but I really want him to have his own device not just for consumption but also to create at free will. I think the ipad is very restrictive in what he can do/play.

Also, my TV in the living room is hooked up to a Mac Mini, so he already plays Youtube on it for 30 mins/day to watch his favorite shows. The computer I would like for him to use more creatively, and tinker with and learn the stuff not generally taught with books or videos..

Kids are going through to college without knowing how to use the filesystem because they only use tablet and mobile operating systems. I think it's good to get them using a real desktop as soon as they're interested in it.

Is it necessary though? File systems aren’t that hard to understand, just more cumbersome to use, and they can learn about them if and once needed.

Manual gear isn't hard to understand and in theory you can learn about them anytime. But in reality if your first car has an automatic gear, you aren't going to use manual.

My first car had a manual gearbox, my second car was electric with a single gear. I haven’t been back to a manual gearbox since. Well, except when playing simulation racing games on the computer.

But I wouldn’t recommend my children to learn how to drive manual unless they are into that.

I bought a second hand Dell XPS 13" (fairly new) and installed Fedora on it. I installed GCompris[0] and setup bookmarks for a few sites that they use in school as well. Seems to work well.

[0]https://www.gcompris.net/

Ask HN: Laptop for a four year old – ideas?