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Comment by cassepipe | Hacker News Reader

Well I must be part of the exception then. I am not proud of anything I have not directly contributed to. Feeling proud for other people achievements is very strange to me.

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I mean, you aren't one in a million rare, but it should be fairly obvious from the existence of sports fans that pride over other's accomplishments is very much a common trait.

My guess is you are taking a narrower view of this than you intend? People don't necessarily take personal pride in what others have done. But identity is both personal and societal. And any accomplishment of identity is something that people are likely to feel pride in.

That is, pride is often tied to identity. And identity has a pretty wide brush.

It's just an extension of society in general. I live in a neighbourhood, I am a member of the community. I am proud of my neighbourhood even though I am not directly responsible for everything positive within it. Same principle scales all the way up to countries. It's a way of bringing people together (see: national sports teams). Nationalism is, uh, not without its downsides. But the motivations are pretty clear.

It's tribalism and it's not going to be 100% present in every individual, but it's still pretty prevalent in humans. It's a neutral concept and I hope has more upside than downside, depends on the situation I guess.

I assume you don't feel shame for things your fellow humans have done either? Anyway everyone is different, but I'm talking about neurotypical people mostly.

Interesting, I’m surprised that you think the average person feels shame over the actions of bad people. I would have said sadness in sympathy to the victims and disgust for the bad person

I would be surprised if most people don't feel some shame when a sibling or other close relative does something bad?

Heck, most of us are effectively different people than we were in the past. And we very much feel some shame when we find out something bad we did back when.

The statement that I was replying to was about feeling shame for actions by other humans anywhere, anytime. I think there is goal post movement in your response.

Do you feel shame when you read about someone stealing a bike in a far country whose capital you wouldn’t know ? You must be in despair over all the crimes committed by humanity every hour

I am merely pointing at the trivial connections to others. Hinting at the idea that any line in the sand between you and others that you will feel an identity with is a line you will draw. That others will draw it somewhere else should be no surprise.

Do I also think it is arbitrary? Yeah. But I am also ok not feeling shame at stupid crap my immediate family has done. I just have no surprise that others do.

You wouldn't feel shame for if your kid murdered someone?

There's obviously a big difference between your own kid and some other kid. When my own kids do something terrible, I'm obviously going to reflect on whether I did something wrong as well when I raised and educated them and hence might be ashamed of that. But why would I be ashamed when my neighbor's kids murdered someone?

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