Commodore 700: “It's a picture – and it's worth a thousand words”
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I too absolutely love the SID[1], probably the most unique sound chip in all of history, but most people don't even do music with these machines.
Sadly, these are not abundant at all - they were far from a commercial success. As why they are attractive over x86 and Macs, is because they are different. Much like the Lisa, they represent the road not taken, or, at least, a past long lost.
The 6502 processor and its variants are well documented and easy to emulate, and there's a vast library of software.
The next generation of 16 bit computers were an order of magnitude more complex: the Amiga, in particular, had several co-processors, which makes emulation and hardware projects correspondingly more complex. (There's no point even mentioning the PC, which was a nondescript business box.)
In any case, there's a huge Amiga scene...
And newer games developed for those platforms employing the tricks we have learned in decades after these machines were retired are quite impressive. Much like the 8088mph demo, people today do things these machines were never supposed to be able to do.
The Plus4, BTW, would have been massively successful if it had back then the games it has today.
And some time later I found an Atari at a garage sale.
I’ve always how much I missed out getting in when I did. Kind of like kids these days in frontend frameworks not ever know ie conditional comment tags or csszengarden
It felt that the computers had a soul, while the PC felt like a pile of hardware stuck together with duckt tape. that happened to work.
I suppose a lot of this was true for the early PC days as well. Just with inferior graphics and interfaces.
After I sold my Amiga to get driving lessons I brought home an ancient 286 and made a text-adventure on it using TADs. The magic wasn't excluded from the PC world, it was just less colourful.
I think it looked something like this, but even older looking than this:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/IB...
and it had nothing on it except a PDF reader or something, so I would pretend to write important documents and turn it on and off many times throughout the day because I couldn't really do much else with it, and I was running on fumes as far as using my imagination as there was literally -nothing- on it.
And yes, had a huge part of who I am today
I agree, Apple is nothing like it. Apple is the opposite because you don't need to know anything about how it works to use one, but that's their niche. With the Commodores, you boot up to a Microsoft BASIC prompt and crack open the manual.
LOAD "*",8,1
and my game started loading :)Getting software was more or less like the PC era, people copying stuff on disks and cassettes. In 80's Hungary they experimented with full program trasmissions over radio.
What was interesting to see is the immersion you can get with only 320x200 pixels. I only realized this after running an emulator on a PC and I got suddenly teleported back to HD land.
It was quite neat that I was able to play with these machines, but after getting a PC there was little desire to go back.
The uses that did take off involved children: education and gaming. Many "home computers" were basically video game consoles in terms of hardware, but they had keyboards and could be programmed. People sold commercial games for these systems, but they were also the first systems for which kids got interested in making their own games. You had to have an interest in programming the machine to a very low level in order to make a game; there was no Unreal or Unity to hold your hand. But the machines were simple and well documented; every bit of hardware (graphics chip, sound chip, joystick port, etc.) had info on how to program it in the manuals that came with the machine (at least for common machines like Commodore ones).
Some of them, most notably the Apple II (US) and BBC Micro (UK), were purchased by schools for educational purposes. Special "edutainment" programs would be run on them to teach kids things like math, reading, and geography. The most famous such program was The Oregon Trail, which simulated an expedition across the western United States before it was settled, but there were hundreds of such programs across the many different computing platforms.
In the 8-bit PC era, because it was unclear what people would use PCs for, it was also expected that they would come up with their own applications and to that end almost all of them came with the programming language BASIC, allowing the user to get started with programming right away. This was considered something of a high point in computing history, because it gave the notion that computers were there to be programmed and to do exactly what their users wanted. As 16-bit and 32-bit machines took their place, programming tools became optional add-ons and it took more and more time and cost to write useful programs for them. Some of the non-IBM-compatible 16-bit machines, like the Atari ST and Amiga, retained some of the "game console" architecture and had amazing graphics and sound capability. With the right tools you could do some really impressive things with them.
PCs didn't become common consumer products until the mid-late 90s when the biggest consumer killer app emerged for them: the internet. This corresponded nicely with the release of Windows 95, the first end-user Windows OS that could run full-fat 32-bit applications. Now that they had a primary purpose for the average consumer, interest in marketing them as programmable devices waned over the next three decades to the present day, when the idea is to prevent the end user from running any but preapproved software, especially on the PC's replacement as internet gateway: smartphones.
We had much more fun with our janky little machines back then, even if we couldn't do nearly as much. We've reclaimed a little of that with open source operating systems like Linux and BSD, but it's still not quite the same.
> why not 8086/PC, Macintosh, Amiga
Well the Amiga is a Commodore computer (Commodore bought Amiga very early on and the Amiga was only ever released by Commodore) and it's got a gigantic retro community too.
With respect to why not the others, you'll find similar communities for the others, but maybe early PC's less so because PC's are still around and still recognisable enough.
But Commodore was massively dominant in terms of sales, and so it's natural that their machines (including the Amiga) gets disproportionately much interest.
More people have nostalgic memories of Commodore. And not just the machines either, but as a brand. It was once one of the most recognisable electronics brands in the world.
Even many people old enough who never owned a Commodore machine or cared about them remember their logo and name from e.g. their sponsorship of FC Bayern München (soccer).
There is still lots of nostalgia for other machines! On the Macintosh end of things, there are people making keyboard/mouse adapters, floppy drive emulators, SCSI hard disk/network card emulators, replacement RAM and re-flashable, customizable ROMs, reproduction cases and even people completely reverse-engineering and remanufacturing the motherboards of old Macs to let people fix their old machines where old capacitors or batteries have leaked and corroded the PCB traces.
https://www.tinkerboy.xyz/product/tinkerboy-adb-to-usb-keybo...
https://www.bigmessowires.com/floppy-emu/
https://github.com/BlueSCSI/BlueSCSI-v2
https://en.infinityproducts.co.jp/product-page/smc-4mb-memor...
https://shop.bigmessowires.com/products/mac-rom-inator-ii-at...
https://maceffects.com/products/maceffects-clear-case-for-ma...
The later machines, or even just IBM PC, which predates it, are much more complex systems and you are less likely to fully understand them.
I think they are so popular because so many kids grew up with C64s, it was both a game console and a "serious" computer. So now, they attract both retro-gamers and programmers who learned on these machines. PCs and Macs were mostly work computers, more expensive and mostly for grownups, so less nostalgia, the ZX Spectrum wasn't great IIRC. The Amiga 500 and Atari ST still have a lot of followers, maybe that they had to share the space made them individually less popular than the C64.
Commodore was hardly alone, of course, in not realizing how the world had changed in August 1981. Even Jerry Pournelle in BYTE kept discussing "Zeke" and other CP/M machines until about 1984.
Those that realized the paradigm shift early—Compaq, Lotus, PC Magazine and PC World, and of course Microsoft—won big. Those that didn't—pretty much every single CP/M vendor, for example—either got run over or, worse, pivoted too late and got run over. Note how the first three pages in the January 1982 BYTE <https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1982-01/mode/2up?v...> (containing the magazine's first full review of the IBM PC) are an ad for Cromemco. ("Who?" you ask. Exactly.) Apple survived because Apple fanatics were a thing 40 years ago as much as they are today. Tandy barely survived by stumbling backwards into the single best-selling PC compatible of the decade. Commodore survived by continuing its move downmarket that the VIC-20 had begun.
It was not unheard of for specialist PC's for 3D to run €30,000 in todays money.
e.g. It was a stretch for my family to get a dishwasher or microwave and to buy me the VIC-20 I had, or a new TV or whatever. But my parents worked their butts off to get their mortgage paid out early (interest rates were stupid high) and were able to do so, and they were able to do renovations, build a new garage, fund their canoeing hobby, etc. My dad (machinist) was unemployed for many years, and money was tight for "luxuries"; we never had fancy steaks or vacations involving airflight, etc. but actual housing costs -- rents, mortgages, renovations, building costs, property taxes just seemed way lower as a proportion of costs vs today.
All this to say, those machines they were expensive for sure, but it's also not as simple as "$10k in today's money" because people I think had more headroom to save.
Also machines like that were something you'd buy with the mindset that you'd hopefully use them for years like a car. We didn't think in terms of the obsolescence cycle like today even though that's what happened. We knew about Moore's law and the progress of technology, but I think many of us users felt like our Atari or Commodore machines would be something we would be building on for quite a long time not a brief 1-3 year interest that then got replaced (which is what actually happened.) Things seemed to have a lot more "it's a brand new technically awesome thing, other people will see that too, and it will be awesome for years! look at all the potential!" vibe.
That was correct for about the first decade of personal computing. The first real move downward from that price point occurred with the simultaneous emergence of cheap PC clones and the Amiga/ST (the Mac wouldn't move similarly downmarket for another half decade, and arguably not for a full decade).
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.cpm/c/hj2M4TIRRKE
A few other companies did make early IBM-PC clones which weren't 100% hardware compatible, and that didn't go well for them.
If it didn't have a Z80 it would have had nothing else instead.
If they decided on MS-DOS compatibility instead, if it sold well or not would depend on how cheap it was to compete with the rest of the clone market. No matter what it would have been a "stopgap" machine since things were moving so fast back then.
Commodore PET history.
Never heard of a Commodore 700 in this context either. Maybe I should brush up on my PET history knowledge?
Development was dropped in favour of the Amiga.
I wish they at least used Coherent as a base for the Amiga OS. Having every Amiga hacker getting used to Unix would have changed the world.
My own Linux skills are well based in my Amiga CLI experiences as a teen
In many ways the native OS was more sophisticated than the unixes that existed back then, but it’s also one of the dead ends in the evolution of computers.
The Amiga was originally supposed to have got another disk operating system, called "CAOS" but the company hired to develop it failed to deliver, so Metacomco was hired to port TRIPOS to the Amiga in time for release (as "Amiga DOS" / dos.library).
CAOS was supposedly supposed to be more Unix-like than the AmigaDOS we got: in file names, protection (with user IDs!) and in command syntax. <https://www.devili.iki.fi/mirrors/haynie/caos.html>
I learned C on a PC/XT running QNX from a floppy containing the kernel, just enough OS to run, vi, and a C compiler/linker.
And *nix like OS's were ported to the hardware shortly thereafter.