Hacker News Reader

Comment by derobert | Hacker News Reader

The article describes middle games as "'middle game' should only take 1 to 9 months to create and can be profitable (or at least not a money sink) because it is expected to earn in the range of $10,000 to $40,000."

Am I understanding that right?

A reasonably competent developer could make at least twice that in salary, with far less risk. So that's not really profitable, once you remember opportunity cost (and especially if you risk-adjust it).

The ones that take a few days can be a weekend project. The longer projects you'd be hoping become huge, and very profitable.

View on HN

True for some cases, but not everyone embarking in those Gamedev journeys are competent developers able to land those jobs. If you see testimonials, they're often people coming from different walks of life, doing a micro-game (often following a tutorial) and then deciding to stop everything for a few months or even years.

Doing those mid-level games is arguably equivalent to taking a low-paid internship.

Yes, building and releasing a game that turns a profit is, in reality, a success. As a programmer, you can absolutely make more money more reliably by getting a job or working freelance.

The problem the article is addressing (I think) is that this reality does not seem to inform the popularly held beliefs and expectations of (inexperienced?) indie game developers, and the effects of that.

>The problem the article is addressing (I think) is that this reality does not seem to inform the popularly held beliefs and expectations of (inexperienced?) indie game developers, and the effects of that.

Reality doesn't inform a lot of creative endeavors. Writing some tech book (or really books more broadly) is almost certainly some way below minimum wage task from a financial perspective unless it makes your company notice you more, it brings you clients, etc.

As mentioned in the article though, a middle game would be a stepping stone that provides hands on experience of creating and selling such a game.

You'd most likely be working on a small portion of a bigger game at a salaried job, without really being able to accumulate the needed skillset to jump into a larger game developed on your own terms.

In video games it would be very hard to make that kind of money(in vast majority of the world anyway) if you're just starting out. I myself was only paid £18k/pa as a junior programmer at a big studio, programming in C++ with two CS degrees. Industry pays crap to those starting out. So compared to that yeah, if you manage to make some games that make enough money to pay the bills and which give you game Dev experience......completely worth it. Or you could leave the industry, get a normal software job and be paid well - the choice is yours.

> I myself was only paid £18k/pa as a junior programmer at a big studio, programming in C++ with two CS degrees

How long ago was that though? I started professionally in games in 2004 getting paid £16k/pa living in Dundee making J2ME games then moved over to another company making a UE3 title after six months going up to 19k/pa. I also had an offer for 21k/pa working for EA Chertsey but didn't fancy moving there!

I hope base salary has gone up by quite a bit in the UK since then!

>>How long ago was that though?

2014. My salary has gone way up since then as I moved up the "ranks", but I know that company pays £25-28k to juniors straight out of uni nowadays.

I think that's very regional? Salary surveys usually list Europeans much lower after currency conversion.

A half decade before you, I also started at a big studio writing C++ (but with one degree) and was paid more twice that but in Canadian dollars (65k CAD). You're right that it pays lower than other programming jobs: Silicon Valley starting salaries were around 80k USD.

From a business perspective the goal would be to make several small games and make that sustainable with a long revenue tail that increases with each.

The hypothetical three year game made by an indie team expecting to make $300,000 is still going to be earning far below a normal software salary.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com