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Comment by kibwen | Hacker News Reader

Windows is enshittifying so rapidly that I firmly believe that, if Valve really wanted to, they could eat Microsoft's lunch when it comes to the non-enterprise desktop market, which is almost exclusively gamers these days. Fortunately for Microsoft, Valve seems content to officially position and market SteamOS as just for its handheld, even though it's entirely possible to run it on other hardware.

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I am continually in awe of how rapidly terrible its gotten since Windows 7. I loved Win7 - it just worked, with a sleek presentation. Every release after was worse overall (I'm not saying good features weren't added, mind you - but the aggregate experience has been worse with every release for me).

(Note: I fully realize Win7 had a ton of windows warts under the hood - I'm just talking about the user experience)

You're telling me you don't want a microsoft account, automatic onedrive sync, and useless ads from the start bar?? :)

Ads in the start bar is something that makes me refuse install Windows nowadays. I paid for the thing, why do I get ads? And why do I need an MS account? Just idiotic.

I feel like if there was some way to backport whatever useful things are in windows 11 (and/or windows 8/10/11+ exclusive games somehow detect their expected OS via polyfills) it would be something I might actually pay for.

Or at least someone should upload a no-BS win11 ISO somewhere.

You don't even need SteamOS to use proton. I have played one game on my Windows partition in the last 5 years. Now I assume games will work on my Linux computer until proven differently instead of the other way around.

I don't know. Developing on Windows 11 + wsl has been a suprisingly good dx for me. Much better than my previous MacOS experience. I understand developers who stay in the Apple ecosystem due to the unbeatable laptop hardware in the macbooks, but software wise most of them would be surprised with the current state on the windows side.

> Developing on Windows 11 + wsl has been a suprisingly good dx for me. Much better than my previous MacOS experience.

I don't know what kind of development you're doing, but this does not match my experience at all.

WSL2 isn’t bad and is getting better but it basically falls apart when you need to run k8s workloads on it. I wish MacOS had native container support - but even without it I’ve not had any issues running a local dev cluster like I did with WSL

as someone on the fence about WSL2 can you elaborate how does it fall apart? I was under the impression Docker with WSL2 backend runs great

Docker with WSL2 runs fine and I use it for my light dev needs on my personal windows machine. Running K8s is the issue.

WSL just had lots of instability issues in my experience when I had to run a handful of services for debugging stuff locally. I tried all sorts of configs to get it to work but it was inconsistent at best. Tons of wasted time. Enough so that our teams got work to get us macs instead (we were a windows shop spinning up a new cloud product - so windows didn’t really make sense as our daily driver anymore anyways). This was about 2 years ago. Maybe things are better now but 6 months of dealing with that instability was enough to sour me.

Kubernetes runs just fine on Windows 11.

I'm very happy with WSL2. The only (well known) problem is the issue with routing when running containers in WSL while behind a VPN. Strangely WSL-vpnkit can't help anymore after some recent updates. It seems WSL 2 2.0.0 will help with this

Proton is still Windows at the end of the day, regardless being on Linux.

I disagree, Proton simply ports the most popular desktop application API to Linux.

If this trend continues, perhaps one day win32 will outlive Windows itself...

Giving no reason for game studios to care about GNU/Linux games, just like OS/2 with its Win32 compatibility, really successful.

The issue with gaming on Linux was the typical chicken or egg. Why would companies make games for Linux if no one plays on Linux and why gamers would use Linux if no games are being made for it.

Between wine/proton and more engine OS cross compatibility in general this is starting to become a non issue. Not that hard anymore to find someone who plays exclusively on Linux and if some game is not there it's not going to buy it.

Enjoying games written for Windows/XBox, while studios targeting Android, don't even care to easily port their games to GNU/Linux.

They already tried that, it was a failure.

https://venturebeat.com/games/valve-unveils-13-partners-for-...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_Machine_(computer)

It is not as much of a failure as just a product released at the wrong time. Most of Steam Deck is basically what lessons Valve has learned with that experiment - Steam Input, Proton, Steam Link (?).

Now that the ecosystem is more mature, there is again some interest towards it. A lot of tech reivew youtubers are now making content on how to get Steam OS to run on X device (X = GPD Win, low profile gaming PC etc..). Honestly, It is good enough to meet most of my "non technical" friends' requirements for their "Home Theater" PC.

Emulate Windows that is the lesson.

They are using Linux to avoid paying the licences.

> They are using Linux to avoid paying the licences.

Windows already doesn't charge any license fees for screens less than 9" no?

It may have started out that way but I think with projects like DXVK, Gamescope etc.. it is also about controlling the whole software stack to provide a console like experience. Also allows them to do things without worrying about drivers from AMD or some random Windows update breaking their customization.

Another interesting thing maybe Valve's idea of reducing the friction. People used to purchase their games on steam even when pirated copies were easily available.

Now that there are more competitors to Steam (Windows Store, Epic, Uplay, Orign, Gog, etc...), Valve is creating their own vertical to make it easier for people to ignore those places when buying games.

Eg. I had the option of purchasing a DRM free copy of an old game on Gog vs. the same game on Steam Deck. On desktop, I'd have definitely gone with Gog. but on the deck, I actually went with Steam that day. Still baffles me.

On top of the sibling commenter's point (that timing is everything - a 2015 failure doesn't guarantee a 2023 failure), Steam Machine wasn't the same as what the gp is suggesting.

Steam Machine was a PC-like piece of hardware aimed at competing in the console market. The gp is suggesting a gamer-oriented piece of software aimed at competing in the consumer OS market. The latter is definitely not something Steam Machines tried and/or failed at.

Steam Machines had the option of running early versions of SteamOS, which Valve sorta pushed and most manufacturers ignored. SteamOS was pretty rough back then.

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