Hacker News Reader

Comment by xyzelement | Hacker News Reader

I don't understand the need to make embarrassed noises around "Florida". I am a New Yorker who gets to visit Miami with regularity including during COVID and from my obviously limited perspective, it's a well run place, much more so than NY to use an obvious example.

To make this more objective - you meet tons of folks in Florida who moved from another state recently and never the other way.

View on HN

I’m not sure how you can say FL is more “well ran” than NY when, specifically NYC vs Miami, is an order of magnitude (or more) difficult to run.

Also it’s patently obvious why people choose to move to FL - has something to do with the sun. They don’t call it the “Sunshine State” for nothing.

You are logical but maybe don't have the context. Historically, old people moved to Florida while young people moved north for careers etc. Currently, you can meet a lot of young professionals / families who have moved to FL. This is new.

I am with you on the weather, but on the flip side it's VERY hot in the summer.

As for NYC vs Miami... there's a palpatable shift. It used to be "what does Miami have for me besides sunshine" and now it's more like "why would anyone stay in NYC?" The former question has more and more good answers now while the later fewer and fewer.

And again I say this as a new Yorker who hasn't moved yet so it's not like I am just talking my own book here.

As someone who lived in New York for a long time (and calls myself a New Yorker but natives may take offense) but moved to Chicago recently, I find myself missing so many of the NYC amenities (subway/buses, entertainment, food, culture, etc) that Chicago has mirages of.

I can't see how Miami (also having spent a decent amount of time there), aside from the weather, could provide anything close to either NYC or Chicago. You have to squint even harder since Miami has none of the public transit, entertainment or other amenities I would expect from a large urban center. Plus, if you lean left on the political spectrum, you inherit the unpalatable politics that come with FL.

At least in Chicago I can buy a house within a ten minute walk to a beach and not break the bank. Something that, unless you're in Rockaway/LI or are ballin out on Star Island/Key Biscayne/Bal Harbor/etc wont get.

If you find people asking "why would anyone stay in NYC", they had no idea why they were there to begin with.

I don't think Miami competes on public transport. It competes on higher quality of life. You can ask for example where will my children be safer etc

And if you did ask "where will my children be safer?" the statistical answer would be NYC by a factor of 2 across nearly every crime category [1].

[1] https://www.nextburb.com/us/compare-places/new-york-ny-vs-mi...

Odd that the specific example you chose is better in NYC than Miami. The news orgs constantly harping on urban crime rarely mention Miami, for some reason. Maybe because Miami has a Republican Governor, state legislature, and mayor while NYC has a Democrat in each of those roles?

Yes, that is my impression. The odd thing is that the endless repetition disinformation machine works so well, 'centrist' Dems pick it up. NYC suburbs voted Republican because of the 'crime' in the city.

What in Miami compares to NYC, other than winter weather (I much prefer NYC winters to Miami summers!)? Food? Culture? Energy? Transit? Crime (much lower in NYC, iirc)? Schools (NYU, Columbia, etc. etc.)? Arts? Music? Parks? Architecture? Dynamism? Workforce talent?

I understand NYC isn't for everyone, and I don't criticize people for living elsewhere, but it's hard to compare ....

and yet, if NY politicians took over FL, they'd run it into the ground in six months (or less).

Your 2nd paragraph is 30 years out of date. Pre-retirement people don't move there unless there are jobs, education for their kids, and safety.

New York has yet to be run into the ground, so I think it would be ok.

Your talking point about NYC being some sort of hellscape is at least 30 years out of date.

no, actually, all those migrants sleeping in the lobby of the Roosevelt Hotel might differ.

Briefly it wasn't a hellscape, but y'all made it one again. Congratulations.

>Briefly it wasn't a hellscape, but y'all made it one again. Congratulations.

Glad you feel that way. Please don't come here.

You mean all the migrants shipped from FL out of spite by a governor using human trafficking for political gain, lovely.

It's easy to say these things, but specifically, with some factual basis: In what ways is FL better run than NY?

Given that you're asking for a lot of work, which you'll then either dismiss or argue about endlessly, I can't see any point in giving you facts.

Instead, we could just rely on the in-migration and out-migration figures. I have to assume those people with personal experience know something.

> Given that you're asking for a lot of work, which you'll then either dismiss or argue about endlessly, I can't see any point in giving you facts.

It sorta looks like you are the one dismissing and arguing, alas. Have a lovely day.

and so we come to the same resolution, except no one had to gather a lot of links. More efficient this way.

By the way, NY does have the best theater scene in the US, but London's is much better.

The user you were arguing with is running multiple unsubstantiated fights in the comments.

Thanks, yet another reason not to spend time collecting facts.

Also, no income tax, which suits retirees well, and low housing costs.

The income tax thing is perplexing to me - you need to pay somehow, no? Without a graduated income tax, probably you are paying more tax overall (unless you are in the top 1%).

sales tax. Highly non-progressive. But make it high enough and it brings in enough dollars, at least for a low-government-services state.

That's what I mean - you are paying tax one way or the other, and probably more unless you are rich.

You won’t meet people in Florida who went “the other way”, because they are now living in another state.

Yes correct. I am not meeting them in NY and other places...

In case you aren't familiar with this topic, the map about 30% down this page shows which cities and gaining and losing population. https://eig.org/city-population-2023/

In one recent bit of research I saw, FL's net population grew quickly, but they actually lost a lot too (and gained more, of course).

or they moved on to some other plane of existence, as many who move to Florida late in life tend to do.

Well, "Florida man" is an archetype in American culture for a reason (although some people say that reason is Florida's sunshine reporting laws).

I'd also argue a place where the state surgeon general posts anti-vax memes and the governor has made his national bones by gutting educational programs and rights isn't "well-run" by most definitions.

Would love to hear more about what you meant by "well-run."

Reply on news.ycombinator.com