They also don't take up that much space really.
If your keyboard is a portable one you pack with you on trips, I get it. If it lives on a desk, why not splash out the small amount extra to make number entry much easier.
Cannot speak to the fashion side of it but my original motivator to move to a keypad less was to reduce the distance of the mouse to my typing space. I do not do any type of data entry and rarely type numbers with enough frequency to require it.
First one I had was a CoolerMaster Storm Quickfire TK, now I'm on a Keychron K4V2. I actually liked the TK better, but it's completely worn out and I couldn't seem to find a similar layout on a new keyboard.
Went through a lot, trackballs, 2 mice, narrow keyboards, but the left hand mouse was the one that fixed the biomechanical issues, and they haven't returned in 20+ years.
I truly do not mean to be insulting or anything, but I read comments like this a lot and they really confuse me. I don't need a numpad because I know how to touch type and don't have trouble putting in numbers with the number row without looking, I never used the numpad even when I had a keyboard that had one.
For why I got a board without it, ergonomics. My mouse is where the numpad would've been. Having a shorter keyboard reduces the distance between my hands at the points where I need to use a mouse to about shoulder width, keeping my arms aligned with my shoulders and greatly reduces shoulder impinging issues I was having.
Another issue is when doing data entry or 2fa codes, one hand tends to be busy holding something. The number row is basically unusable one-handed as far as I'm concerned.
And for me, mouse distance from the keyboard has never been an issue, because I use them in different scenarios. It's not often that I'm dual wielding them to the point shoulder angles are a concern. If I'm spending hours coding, the amount of mouse usage is going to be minimal.
Also possible I never needed to enter numbers often enough prior to learning to touch type with the num row to incentivize finding a more efficient method and once I was regularly typing a lot of numbers my num row method was sufficient.
Also while I don’t remember the exact timeline, because of my dad’s employer, Thinkpads were one of the main types of computers I used as a kid meaning I spent a lot of time growing up using built in laptop keyboards without numpads.
It’s interesting how random quirks during childhood can result in very different ways of looking at a certain topic later in life.
I definitely did a bad job explaining the kb + mouse thing. Writing code I rarely touch the mouse and if I do its for UI navigation that doesn’t support key strokes or is faster by mouse (usually stuff in a browser) so I’m mostly not using the keyboard at the same time (one exception being ctrl/cmd clicking links). I actually keep a trackpad to the left of my keyboard (I’m left handed) which I generally use to mouse during work with minimal arm movement.
The situation where I was getting shoulder issues was playing video games. Getting a compact keyboard let me move my normal hand position inward to be better aligned while playing without the risk my mouse hits the side of the keyboard. I’ve worked from home for almost a decade using the same desk/monitor/keyboard/mouse setup for work and play and since I never used the keypad anyway it was no big deal to just switch both contexts even if doing so was initially only related to gaming.
Also those keyboards without a number block seem to have bad positions for cursor and other special keys.
I was being a bit ignorant but was ok looking dumb in hopes of getting a better understanding of that other perspective. Mainly expressed my own as context for where I was coming from. Like yes, I think my opinion is objectively correct (which leaked in some), but I apologized in advance cause I recognize my doing so is irrational.
To maybe balance out my coming off as superior, until moving to a country with chip and pin where it was regularly necessary, I could not touch type on a keypad. I would screw up embarrassingly often when forced to use one. Even once lost a card to an ATM after typing my pin wrong too many times. I rarely used one and thus lacked the muscle memory while typing numbers with the row is engrained from doing it so often for so long.
I will not however have my good name besmirched by the implication I use a mouse while writing code! I’m an old curmudgeon who’s completely incapable of moving off of vim, I would never soil myself in such a manner. The mouse is used if I’m on MacOS where the UI lacks good keyboard navigation as well as the main situation I was having ergonomic issues during, playing video games.
Sincerely,
A curmudgeonly old emacs user
* less desk real estate needed
* many of us aren't doing much number entry at all
Even with weird combinations, like holding '1' and pressing '9' to autotype '192.168.0.'.
If you're using IPs there something wrong with your process.
Typing numbers on a single row is not an issue for me, so numpad brings me little benefits and significant drawbacks.
Having a "tenkeyless" means my mouse position is aligned with my shoulder, with a full width keyboard my arm would be rotated constantly, leading to pain.
Because it's bad ergonomics, if you're right-handed. It puts the mouse too far to the right.
And I've been using computers for decades but can't recall a single time I ever did numeric "data entry".
That just feels like a relic of when office workers were entering amounts from stacks of printed invoices by hand.
I try to use my keyboard whenever possible, but sometimes reaching to my mouse is just easier. Moving my hand 5 inches is already bad, but having to move it 10-15 inches every time I want to use the mouse is terrible.
And all for what? For having to enter a phone number or credit card number once a month into some form? The tradeoff is not worth it for most people.
As a programmer, I don't need a numpad very often, having long strings of numbers are not very common in my field. Sure, sometimes I need to write numbers, but they are one or two character long, and having them above the keys is better experience as I don't need to move my hand so far.
But I do use my tenkey pretty often and want it around.
I would consider a separate numpad so it can be moved around if needed, but that need never really comes up for me.
OK, I've read all the answers so far, in the hope that somebody had told you before, but no!
I don't use the numpad, so it's useless to me. But does it harm? In the case of these keyboards, not so much, except for the reason others have already explained of more distance for the mouse. I can live with it, but my next keyboard will be numpad-less for sure.
If we talk about laptops, that's a different story. Numpads for those are terrible, for me anyway.
They shift the center of the hands, that is between G and H, from the center of the laptop and thus the center of the screen, so your hands are in an unnatural position.
If you center an external wide keyboard, you get the same effect. I don't, but I try to use the GH line... "try" because the push from the mouse always tend to move it to the left.
So now you know, for some of us it's not a question of fashion, but usability :)
2. I almost never do number entry, but if I do I have a dedicated number pad.
10/10 would recommend a separate numpad. Also good for macros in games or Photoshop or whatever.
Anyway, I'm currently using an Ergodox EZ and it's very simple: I have a numpad "layer" activated with a key. The keyboard already has the right layout, so activating this layer with the left hand lets me quickly enter a number with my right hand (from the home row).
I don't really have any beef with those who want a smaller keyboard (though I don't really understand it - no way is your desk so small that saving a few inches actually makes a difference). But it is a real bummer that makers of high-end keyboards only cater to that crowd, and don't make nice keyboards that are full size. I would love to get a GMMK Pro, for example - if only it was in the form factor I want.
I've tried a couple of numberless keyboards and those crowd my mouse area. I am firmly and permanently settled on the Apple keyboard. It is tiny, silent and perfectly reliable.
(In a bizarre side note, I left one out in the rain the other day, a downpour. It still worked.)
It's not about desk space, it's about ergonomics.
The small size is nice for portability -- my keyboard is split and wireless, so I can easily stick it in my backpack and set it in front of my laptop on a table anywhere. But again, the main benefit of a compact layout for me is ergonomics rather than size.
I use separate keypad for number entry (not this one exactly, but you get the idea): https://www.amazon.com/MOTOSPEED-Mechanical-Portable-Backlig...
The only time I miss it is gaming. Flight/Space sims, Factorio, things like that really benefit from a numpad. Otherwise, I'm not typing numbers enough to care.
My wife on the other hand has a custom keyboard with a num pad on each side so she can num pad with a mouse in her hand.
People have different needs. And different workflows. Not sure why that's news to you.
For an accountant or someone whose keyboard usage is exceedingly numbers-centric, then sure. But as a default option, it's a space eating waste.
The MS Sculpt (in the article) comes with a number pad as well, I've had it for years and left the number pad in the drawer.
Personally, I just have a layer that I activate with my right thumb to turn the m,.jkluio keys into 123456789, so it's like having a number pad, but one that doesn't take up any space.
Ay! another civ 2 fan! I agree it's painful to play that game without a numpad. I also used it with some tactical shooters to radio compass directions to my team. 'Enemy spotted south south east!' It came in handy.
I've used the old Mac 104 key aluminium wired keyboard for about 10 years now. I originally used it with Linux and now with MacOS at work and my home Windows PC. I've occasionally had minor difficulties with mapping but nothing insurmountable.
I sometimes try to go back to full size keyboard but I just can't take it for more than a few hours. It's just too uncomfortable. I'd love to have a keyboard with the numpad on the left side.
If I were a lefty with regards to mousing I'd use a full size keyboard and be happy.
If the board has QMK/remappable firmware, then they can add a virtual layer that does have a numpad. That's what I did for my Let's Split keyboard.
I can assume that people with narrow shoulders would prefer a narrow layout on their desk.
What I hate are those tiny arrow keys on the Mac keyboard
Also any time my hands leave the home row it feels kinda wrong.
Annoying because, yes entering numbers is a problem.
Not annoying because the mouse is closer.