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Comment by kajumix | Hacker News Reader

Competition is the natural state of affairs. Nobody has to enable it. IBM/Microsoft weren't forced by the EU to give up market dominance in PCs. And if the EU tried, it couldn't ever do a better job than Apple did. It's no surprise that EU lags so much behind the US in tech innovation.

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> Competition is the natural state of affairs.

This is not even remotely true. Economies of scale mean that power accumulates and monopolies emerge, and monopolies are the antithesis of competition. In order to ensure competition, you need regulation to shake the jar regularly.

How is Apple a monopoly? iPhones are less than 20% of phones sold in the world. Samsung sells more phones than Apple.

The App Store is the monopoly. Once you own an iPhone, you have no choice but to use their software ecosystem where they double dip and charge everyone again to buy apps. It’s dirty.

I love Apple’s hardware. But I want to be able to get software from other sources just like I can on my Mac and my windows computer.

Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo restrict their game consoles in the same way. Are all three monopolies that are somehow competing with each other? Why is it good for the government to force Apple to open up their hardware, but bad to do the same to game console makers?

This is a very good point. Didn't the EU just gleefully wave through the Microsoft/Activision sale?

I can think of a few differences with game consoles:

- Phones are designed and used as general purpose devices, complete with thriving app ecosystems. I’ve installed software from dozens of companies on my phone - for gaming, work, leasure, health, everything. Phones are used much more like computers than an Xbox. We buy them to use them like computers.

- Unlike most game consoles, phones aren’t subsidised by the App Store. Apple makes a profit from iphone sales even if you don’t buy any apps.

- Phones matter more. I carry an iPhone in my pocket every day. I don’t carry a Nintendo switch.

The entitlement here is unreal. “I should be free to coerce others into doing what I want”. Man, just buy an Android. Unreal.

I should be free to buy software for my iPhone from other vendors. I should be free to write & run software on my iphone without paying apple for the privilege.

Its my phone. I bought it with my own money. I do feel like I'm entitled to do whatever I want with my device. Its mine.

You bought that thing wide eyed as to its capabilities. Now you’re complaining and want to use coercion to get a feature. Yea it’s entitled and unnecessary. I can understand if Apple murdered someone and you want to punish them, use the law. But “I like their hardware and totes wish it had side loading” is immoral and egregious.

A big reason why consoles aren't as general purpose is because their app stores are more restrictive than phone app stores. Also this reasoning leads to some odd policy outcomes. If console manufacturers increased their prices so that their consoles weren't loss-leaders, would you be swayed towards forcing them to open their app stores? Likewise if Apple sold iPhones as loss leaders, would you be swayed against forcing them to open their app store?

This is a big difference in viewpoint between the US and EU. The US has an undying belief in free market forces. Yet its government is beholden to those same big money forces through campaign contributions. Leading to a peculiar corporate oligarchy (really how democratic is it if you need millions in donations with strings attached to have a chance to win?). We in the EU want to avoid this and keep government serving the interests of citizens.

The EU tries to balance this out with more regulation to prevent the stalemate and conflict of interests that exists in the US. Things like the Senate launch system that just exists for pork. Our welfare is for citizens, not big business :)

And it's fine, Apple doesn't have to enable sideloading in the US. But if they want to sell here they'll have to play by our rules.

I’d lol if they pulled out.

I personally wouldn't really care, here in Spain Apple is very marginal anyway due to the high prices. They have only a 15% marketshare on mobile: https://www.statista.com/forecasts/1275873/most-preferred-po...

After Samsung, Huawei, Xiaomi.

This is also why iMessage isn't a thing here in Europe but whatsapp is.

But the latest info is that Apple is going ahead with opening sideloaded stores, but for EU region only.

Actually the web browser is exactly one of the things that microsoft had to change to reduce their enforced market dominance. They made microsoft stop forcing IE down everyone's throat.

It's eerie how similar the iphone browser situation paralllels that.

> Nobody has to enable it.

OS and device vendors forcibly inserting themselves between developers and users like Apple does is unprecedented. Because Apple has a literal technological supremacy over most of the humanity (since iOS devices use secure boot that can't be disabled and relies on keys burned into silicon that you can't change because you lack the technology to do so), regulation needs to happen to enable fair competition among iOS apps.

In other words, no one needed to enable competition when adversarial interoperability was possible. It is not possible on iOS devices because of combination of secure boot and code signing policies.

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