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Comment by bengale | Hacker News Reader

I remember the first time I had mutton curry in the Middle East. I thought it was going to be gross, turns out it's delicious. It does seem a shame its not more common in the west.

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Never had mutton myself but other meats I like that are uncommon to find in US grocers are duck, quail, and goat. Duck has gotten easier to find I suppose, the whole foods near me will sell both whole and breasts. I don't remember this being the case 3 years ago.

But finding goat is very hard. I don't tend to go to butchers since there are none near me within walking distance.

When I lived in Florida I'd routinely eat at Caribbean or Dominican or other tropical cuisine restaurants that would all serve goat. Some of my favorite meals I've ever had were in those small hole-in-the-wall places.

My local costco sells large boxes of frozen cubed goat meat, and maybe entire goats. (Theres occasionally something large wrapped in burlap next to where the goat cubes are stored in the freezer).

I don't have a need for a 15 pound box much less whole animal, so haven't bought it. Will get a duck from them later this fall though.

hmm I'll have to try my Costco then. I don't mind driving to shop but Costco sells way to much for a single dude to finish in a reasonable time :D

I honestly can't believe duck isn't more popular in the US. Yes, it's more expensive than chicken but part of that (I suspect) is its rarity. But unlike lamb (which I love) being something of an acquired taste, duck is unambiguously delicious.

My only real guess is that both duck and lamb–to me–seem more sensitive in general to preparation. Beef, chicken, and pork are less enjoyable when they're not cooked well but they're still alright. Duck and lamb seem significantly less enjoyable when they're prepared badly.

Duck is absolutely great, there's a Thai restaurant near me that makes a great tasting fried duck breast with a peanut sauce. Incredibly crispy, incredibly delicious. Highly underrated meat as you said.

> Beef, chicken, and pork are less enjoyable when they're not cooked well but they're still alright.

I get that you don't really mean "well" in the steak sense, but I still can't help but to think of how I love medium rare. I will tolerate rare and up to medium well (to a point), but actual well is a hard no.

I grew up thinking I hate steak because my family think the slightest hint of pink is poison. Even my younger brothers, so it's not a generational thing. It gets weird when we meet up and one of them wants to grill the meat, I have to snatch my meat off the grill like a cat burglar because nobody else will respect my preference and try to chase me away (they're completely convinced I'm reckless for this.)

Wow, that's terrible. I'm glad you've learned better taste for steak.

I hate turkey so much that I banned it from our Thanksgiving. Yes I've had it deep fried, baked, smoked, you name it, still hate it.

We switched to duck instead a few years back and it's positively wonderful. Anyone who eats with us admits it's way better than turkey.

I have no idea why it's not more popular...

I think it falls in the same trap as lamb, mutton and goat. Americans don't like food with a lot of flavor. That's also why there are fairly few fermented foods that are commonly eaten and why Tilapia is a popular fish.

I hate that you're right about this.

I posted this above, but its because its much much cheaper and turkey can be farmed on a scale which is very difficult to do with duck or geese.

Its not banned from our table, but it would get the same reception from my family as if I had heated up some microwave meals. But we grew up on farms and had good access to better alternatives.

BTW, if you like duck, try Goose for thanksgiving, and make sure you use the fat if making roasted potatoes.

Thanks. Never even thought of trying a goose, I'll try to source one this year.

To me the surprise is the popularity of turkey over duck and goose. Turkey is cheaper, but needs to be prepared really well in order to be mediocre. A badly cooked duck or goose is much better than a perfect turkey. The ceiling for goose is high and even higher for duck, but the floor is already pretty high.

Turkey is much much cheaper to raise in quantity than duck or goose. In my family it would be rare to use a turkey for an occasion, its just not interesting.

I really despise duck. It has an irredeemably off flavor that overwhelms whatever it’s served with. The preferred way to address this in Western cuisine seems to be sickly-sweet glazes and jellies, which are no better.

Love lamb though. Different strokes for different folks?

Duck soup is one of my favorite soups. And it is hard to get it wrong.

Most Indian/Pakistani stores usually have goat meat available. Its commonly used in curries, pilafs, etc.

I'm surprised you guys don't eat much duck, it's also really good. Do you eat goose? We often have that instead of Turkey, although it's a lot smaller.

"mutton" in the middle east might well have been goat rather than sheep (common usage in indian english, and it's spread to bits of the middle east too)

Preparation is probably a big factor. Some meat houses ('churrascarias') serve grilled mutton here but I can't stand the taste, it immediately remembers me of a smelly rain-soaked lamb. But I ate mutton in a dinner in England, decided to eat it quietly out of politeness to the host, but it didn't taste bad at all.

Let’s be clear, for some people it does in fact taste gross.

For me it’s not gross but the flavor is very intense, and gets old quickly. Each time I need a few years break before I can enjoy it again.

That has a lot to do with they way it's cooked and how mature the animal was.

I've eaten mutton in the US, in China, in India, in Afghanistan, in Pakistan, in Iran, in Iraq, in Turkey, in Greece… I think your theory doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Edit: downvoted why?

India, Pakistan called goat meat as mutton.

Yes, still tastes bad to me (I admit this is subjective).

I don't eat mutton regularly, but when I do I can notice the difference between mutton and lamb.

Last time I've eaten, like a month ago, we asked the waiter what was the difference between two plates and she told us basically that, one was more tender with a light flavour, the other one was stronger.

Just so you know. I did not downvote you.

I did not even notice it is not a thing in the US. It's definitely not all of "The West". In Europe (UK, France, Belgium), mutton is pretty common.

Actually, in the UK, mutton tends mainly to be eaten by members of Asian, Middle Eastern and Caribbean communities. It's not widely sold in supermarkets all over the country, unlike, say, lamb. And where it is sold in a supermarket it tends to be one product line where there might be several for more common types of meat like beef, pork and lamb.

Is there really much difference between mutton and lamb meats?

Mutton is really goat. Lamb is just lamb meat. IMO, lamb is sometimes harder to cook because of the smell - you need the right spices to get rid of the smell. Easy to get mutton in most urban areas in the west - just look for a Halal meat shop.

I've never seen 'mutton' be goat. Mutton is the name for the meat of adult sheep, lamb is the name of meat from the juvenile sheep. Goat is goat.

They meant "good", not "goat", I think.

No, in the Indian subcontinent, it is usually taken refer to goat because sheep are pretty much scarce (Maharashtra and Kashmir being exceptions)

In the UK lamb is cooked mostly unspiced - maybe a touch of rosemary and garlic. Mint sauce is used as a condiment.

Yes. Mutton is the meat of the adult sheep, lamb is the meat of a juvenile sheep. The flavor is different, but in a volume-ish way. If you think of the flavor of lamb as being a 4, the strength of the mutton flavor is like a 7-8. It's the same flavor, there's just way more of it.

I don't often see mutton in the UK.

The supermarkets carry mutton yearround. I don't see much or any venison, but maybe that's because those who eat it hunt it themselves?

It does require knowing how to prepare it in order to overcome the gamey flavor though. (Greek recipes are good and approachable)

You know an American supermarket that carries mutton?

Whole foods (where mutton = sheep's flesh (in some places it may also mean goat's meat))

Lamb is also sheep's flesh, but it's not the same as mutton. Lamb is indeed very commonly available, though usually still in fairly limited selection, but I can't even remember the last time I saw actual mutton for sale.

Venison originally meant the meat of a game animal, so in a sense it's technically impossible to sell in stores.

Why would it be impossible? You shoot the deer, you butcher it, you sell it in the store.

Here in Germany we have „game season“ and you can pre-order it at a lot of butcher shops or even certain supermarket chains. The orders are then basically fulfilled by local hunters and foresters, the meat is inspected like any other meat.

Because you're not playing the game if you buy it in a store.

In the US it's illegal to sell wild game meat, even between private individuals. It's part of the North American Model: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Model_of_Wildli...

There are a few farms which raise venison, elk, etc. but I think due to chronic wasting disease and other issues they're rare... also your average American just isn't that eager to eat game (unless they're hunters).

Note that "wild boars", being feral hogs, are usually exempt from the meat sale laws.

> In the US it's illegal to sell wild game meat, even between private individuals.

Because I'm a pedantic sort, I'll point out that this isn't completely true. The act you link to governs interstate commerce. Individual states can set different rules that apply for sales that do not cross state lines. I live in Vermont, so I'll use that as an example I know:

Big Game: The only time it is legal to buy or sell big game or the meat of big game within the state is during the open season and for 20 days after the season ends.

https://www.eregulations.com/vermont/hunting/general-regulat....

This was a surprise to me when I moved to Vermont. I grew up in Wisconsin, which (at least when I was there) followed the rules that you quoted.

The whole feral vs wild animal thing is kind of interesting once you know about it. Until a few years ago, I had no idea that most of the deer in my country are an invasive japanese species that were introduced a few hundred years ago by one guy who thought they looked cool. (as a result, hunting is pretty straightforward. Both permits and stalking wise.)

I've been wondering for a while about doves that people hunt/eat, and the much more common type of dove (rock dove/domestic pigeon) which I presume nobody wants to consume due to its diet and the whole "flying rat" taboo.

I see lamb all the time in large grocery stores, but not actual mutton from mature sheep. What chains carry mutton year-round?

Game meat like venison isn't FDA approved and hard to ensure food safety: https://www.food-safety.com/articles/4688-game-meat-a-comple...

I'd imagine there aren't a lot of suppliers or grocery stores carrying it because of the risk

All of the nicer grocery stores in my area (Whole Foods, any of the better stocked small chain grocers, but not Kroger/Meijer) stock a wide variety of frozen 'game' meats. Rabbit, boar, venison, etc. Rarely fresh, but always available frozen.

It's all raised specifically for meat though, none of the animals are wild harvested.

I'm not sure about the USA but here in Canada there are legal restrictions on game. In Ontario, you can't sell meat from game. (You can't even give it away, technically, unless it was inspected and butchered by a licensed butcher.)

So any venison in the store will have come from farm-raised deer. And deer are relatively difficult and expensive compared to chickens or cattle.

I can find mutton and venison, and also horse meat, in upscale grocery stores here in Ontario. It's all terribly expensive, except lamb/mutton from NZ when it's in season.

In NZ deer are farmed. When I was there it seemed almost more common than beef, the Italian restaurant I went to used it for their meatballs.

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