Pixel 8 leak promises 7 years of OS updates | Hacker News Reader

Pixel 8 leak promises 7 years of OS updates

arstechnica.com

174 pointsnickthegreek245 comments

I owned the original Nexus 5 phone and Nexus 7 tablet. I love both of these devices for their design but both had serious issues.

The Nexus 7's storage degraded, which rendered the device unusably slow. I thought it was the upgrade to the next version of Android that did it, but downgrading it did not fix the issue. There's been some workarounds that made it slightly more usable but ultimately it was a serious hardware defect that made it unbearably slow to use even with these workarounds.

The Nexus 5 had a bootlooping issue — I had the issue occur on my first Nexus 5, 2 weeks out of warranty. Fortunately Google was kind enough to send me a refurbished one... that shortly after had the same bootloop issue.

My opinion of Google has gradually deteriorated over time to the point now where I actively avoid using anything made by Google because 1) they can't do hardware right and 2) they sunset way too many products for me to feel comfortable using them. So the promise of 7 years of OS updates on a hardware device by Google just seems empty and maybe pointless because I don't trust the device itself will continue functioning, even if the updates keep coming... which I have doubts they will.

While I was still using Android, my Samsung Galaxy S6 was probably the most headache-free experience I had, even with the complete lack of feature/OS updates but as it stands, my iPhones have all been rock solid devices, so that is probably what I will continue using unless something drastic changes.

Same. I had both those devices and at the time of purchase they were a great value contrast to the iPhone/iPad. But, after the issues you describe I went back to iPhones and never looked back. Google had a great opportunity that they squandered.

I have to admit, I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum there, having had both devices

I loved my 2012 Nexus 7, and was a Day 1 upgrader to the 2013 model (my Mom enjoyed the 2012 for many years for eBooks and Facebook)

My Nexus 5 I was also a day 1 purchase, upgrading from a slowly deteriorating Galaxy S2. Unfortunately I had to replace it much earlier after I slipped and fell on uneven concrete and shattered the screen

If Google could just take the SoC of the Pixel 6/7/8/whatever and stuff it in the housing of the Nexus 7 2013, give it a modern battery and a nice OLED screen it would truly be the best tablet on the market. But instead they want "bigger" and are chasing after the iPad with the new pixel tablet

> But instead they want "bigger" and are chasing after the iPad with the new pixel tablet

I bought a 11" tablet BECAUSE it is much bigger than a phone, so I can comfortably watch videos and read technical documents. I might have considered as small as 8", but 10" was really the minimum in my mind.

Given that most android phones are 6-6.5" already, why would anyone buy a 7" tablet in addition to their phone? Maybe as a throwaway gift to a child? Would the market be large enough to be worth it?

I have an iPad mini that I really like. A nexus 7 with a slightly smaller bezel and updated internals would be a really nice device. It's a nice size for casual games, video watching, and a great size for reading manga or books. The only option for a small tablet on Android really is the Fire tablets from Amazon, but they're really lacking in performance, which limits what you can do with it.

But in general I find Android tablets to be pretty lacking in the software support department, even though hypothetically it should be a great platform.

If they could just make the Nexus 7 with better bezel-to-screen (maybe something similar to the Pixel's?) it would be perfect

I want something I can comfortably hold in one hand to read books on, a 10 inch iPad or Samsung is just too big (and heavy) to do that, and a phone just feels too squashed at the same time

I'm probably in a hell of a niche but it truly was just the perfect 'sweet spot' size for me

Such tablets are now sold as "foldable phone". I love it for reading everything and fits in my pocket, but it's expensive for who just want a Nexus 7 2023.

I like small phones. I have an iPhone 13 Mini, and have never had the desire for anything larger. They drive me nuts. I'm usually carrying two, and the bulk adds up.

I also have a 7" tablet. Small enough to fit into any backpack, pocket, my wife's purse, etc. Still large enough it's usable with a kickstand and Bluetooth keyboard.

If I want to do real work, I'll just use a PC. The small tablet is a great middle ground away from home.

True. My MIL is still using that Nexus tablet thought it is completely battered but she only needs Candy Crush.

My 2013 Nexus 7 refused to die- I used it until late 2022, when I finally replaced it with a Samsung Galaxy Tab A, which is almost as good though I miss the "pure Android" minimal experience; I don't care for Samsung's additions to the base Android platform.

Funnily enough I followed the Nexus 7 with a Samsung Tab A 10.1 and that also became an almost unable laggy mess in short order. The iPad mini bought around the same time as the Nexus for my wife if still going fine, as well as my grandmother's iPad. As much as I don't want to this point I think if I ever need a tablet again (I do like them for PDFs and schematics, but I have never found a good way to send and organise files for quick access that makes it worth it), I might just forgo Android tablets and go to the dark side.

> I have never found a good way to send and organise files

I use the Note To Self channel in Signal for that. Cross platform, desktop, tablet & mobile. Before i used KDE Connect.

We had two 2013 Nexuses: one with 3g radio and one wifi-only.

First, the 3g one died, on sudden black screen of death. Then, year or two later, the wifi one, on the flash deterioration.

The flash issue wasn't problem only for Nexus. The Asus Transformer line had exactly the same problem (Nexus 7 was made by Asus).

The 3g one was replaced by Sony Xperia Z3 Tablet Compact. That thing still lives, albeit it is on Android 6 and the battery life is short. Too bad Sony doesn't make tablets any more.

I really tried to ride that train, had a Nexus 6, which got stuck in an unrecoverable boot loop after a year, after that a Nexus 6P which bricked itself similarly, and then a flagship Samsung Note something, which couldn't be charged because of "moisture in the port" after a year, despite it being completely dry, after which the battery inflated so much it blew open the whole case.

Then I bought an iPhone 11 Pro and it "just works" to this day, with no replacement needed in sight. After years of being that guy who explains the "dangers" of walled garden ecosystems to my boomer iPhone parents, I joined their gang and have been living carefree since.

Yeah I feel like Samsung has a very good value proposition in 2023. I guess my biggest thing is it requires you to remove all the bloat and adware as a prerequisite.

After the rug pull of the Pixel Pass, I'm done with Google. That was one of the scammiest things they've ever done. I'm still fucking pissed about it and it's been a month.

I am not sure why people think it was scammy? Pixel Pass was a glorified device financing option. Unlike Apple iPhone Upgrade Program where you trade in your phone. The upgrade isn’t free you still need to pay monthly for next two years when you upgrade. You can still upgrade for much cheaper with 0% financing. Also when you subscribe to Spotify or Netflix is there an expectation that you get the same price you signed up for when they increase price? That is the same happening here. For two years people got the Pixel Pass were paying for the device financing + perks. They only paid for device they got and not for any future device. Take a look at Pixel financing cost it is much cheaper than Pixel Pass and when you finance you have the option to trade in old phone and get reduced finance rate.

The tone of the parent post might not have been ideal, but it is correct on the facts. By ending the program, the opportunity lost to subscribers was to begin financing of a new device with a new 24 month contract period. There was no sweetheart discount involved in getting a new device.

To be clear, I’m a mild Apple apologist and strong Google critic, but even I can see this wasn’t scummy. It was only disappointing. (And even then, it shouldn’t have been disappointing. Google is famous for three things: search, ads, and cancelling stuff.)

I don't understand what opportunity was lost? They are still offering 0% financing which is still cheaper than Pixel Pass. On top when you add trade in, it's even cheaper. With Pixel Pass you cannot trade in.

I hate Google management (as opposed to the company's good products). I signed up for You Tube Premium Lite just 9 months ago. Received by email this morning (below), they tell me I was one of their first subscribers, but they're discontinuing the product and canceling our business relationship without prejudice and without looking back. How has this become a way of doing business?

Hi Bill,

Thank you for being one of our first Premium Lite members.

We're writing to let you know that after 25 October 2023, we will no longer be offering your version of Premium Lite. While we understand that this may be disappointing news, we continue to work on different versions of Premium Lite as we incorporate feedback from our users, creators and partners.

We will cancel your membership on 25 October 2023. Your Premium Lite benefits will expire at the end of your billing cycle and you will not be billed further.

What would you rather they do? Upgrade you to the current Premium plan, raising your price?

Not end it? That is pretty obvious.

They should have kept YouTube premium and YouTube music as separate options in addition to having a bundled subscription. A lot of people have a problem with being forced to pay for both when they only use YouTube for non music viewing.

If it's so hard to offer less service at a lower price, then they should upgrade but lock in the old price for... let's say 5 years.

It's just such an awful, uninspired, sad way to conduct business. There's no actual information in the email "we continue to work on different versions of Premium Lite as we ...". So is there a different version of Premium Lite they could move me too? Who knows, I suppose I need to go and research that myself, they're certainly not giving me any options or offering any kind of sweetener. If they're sincere in their stupid "thank you for being an early customer to our new product we're now killing" sentiment, they should do something like automatically upgrade me to the Premium plan for a decent period, say a year, without raising my price.

If Google had any faith in their product lines, that email would have a big call to action making it easy for a subscriber to switch plans. It’s weird that they just don’t seem to care at all about dropping subscribers, like they expect to fail and expect to be unable to upsell.

Going further into Google’s mismanagement of their products, I used to be all in for anything Nest, even though we’re also part of the Apple cult. We bought everything: the thermostat, cameras, fire alarms, and Nest Secure: their security alarm system. They had a sale on Nest Secure and I thought that they were being aggressive on subscriber acquisition. I was extremely wrong. It was actually a scammy fire sale since they ended up cancelling the Nest Secure product line one month later. To add insult to injury, Google wouldn’t even refund me my money. I had to go through my credit card to return and repeatedly dispute the charge from Google’s Store (already returned / RMA’d the product since it was also defective).

Needless to say, we are no longer invested in anything Nest related including the hubs. We even cancelled our YouTube premium subscription because of this mess. Now, we are completely all in with Apple’s ecosystem. We will never trust Google again for anything beyond their free services.

To be fair, Google is slowly starting to realize their marketing and product management missteps given how they handled stadia. Still, we’re not coming back.

re: thermostats, camera, fire alarms etc.. what did you move to? I'm looking for something integrated as well. I would really love for google to get their shit together, but rational thinking says I can't with Nest one way or the other.

In short, we just moved to Apple HomeKit and used whatever was compatible with it.

There are issues with setup since most of these products aren’t from Apple. However, the fact that it works offline without internet makes it a worthwhile upgrade. The caveat is that you need an Apple TV or HomePod to act as the hub. Like everything Apple it’s not cheap, but I’d rather spend money instead of time, and I just want it to work without the looming threat of cancellation.

not to mention, all that nest hardware is now hardly-recyclable and highly polluting waste.

so long for the environment, i guess.

Why do you think it was scammy?

I was done years ago and look upon with admiration those done with them a decade or two ago.

Google is just YouTube to me now. I am amazed at how their management hasn’t seriously tackled the reputational crisis their company has. That being their reputation for abandoning their products to save Google money at their customers expense.

Google at this point is a PR machine for Microsoft and their commitment to long term support and I don’t even like Microsoft.

> I am amazed at how their management hasn’t seriously tackled the reputational crisis their company has.

What crisis? They've got billions pouring in through ads on Search, YouTube and Android. They can mess up everything else and keep axing products that only bring in tens of millions because that looks like a pittance in comparison.

The beancounters/MBAs ruining it as usual. Dislike my negative tone here but what else could i say?

> My opinion of Google has gradually deteriorated over time to the point now where I actively avoid using anything made by Google

It's worth pointing out the Nexus 5 released 10 years ago and things have definitely changed (improved, IMO) in that time.

Owned a Pixel 1 in the past, and it started to suffer from the same issue, so this may be an inherent problem in flash storage (at least as it's implemented in mobile phones).

That might be a coincidence as Nexus 5 was made by LG while Pixel 1 was by HTC.

For years now, phones use UFS storage which is significantly more resilient to degradation. Which is why longer support cycles are necessary.

I don't think Nexus phones were built by Google. They always had a different manufacturer, unlike the Pixels.

> unlike the Pixels.

Only after Pixel 3 (where they started working with Foxconn):

- Pixel 1: HTC

- Pixel 2: HTC

- Pixel 2 XL: LG Electronics

> The Nexus 5 had a bootlooping issue

Are you sure that wasn't a Nexus 5X? I'm still using a Nexus 5 (running some LineageOS fork) as a media controller.

I had a Nexus 5X that bootlooped, so I traded in its replacement for a Pixel 2, but its microphone died, and its replacement had a perma-locked bootloader... but the Nexus 5 is still doing fine.

Yes, it was a Nexus 5. There's been several phones that have had this issue from Google... which is all the more reason I wouldn't buy another Google hardware device.

I had a Nexus 5X that bootlooped, but if IIRC from my research at the time, Nexus 5 also had the same problem, albeit seemingly to a lesser extent.

It was both, but they bootlooped for different reasons. Nexus 5 had a faulty power button that could fail in a couple of ways. Nexus 5X was something about how the components on the PCB were constructed being of iffy quality. You could get lucky and never have the 5 fail whereas the 5X was/is guaranteed to fail. I bought a 5X purely for device testing. It was basically unused 99% of its lifetime (6+ years) and eventually started bootlooping last year.

The Nexus 6P was also famous for having a bootloop issue as well as suddenly going dead despite showing that it still had a good charge.

Both my wife and I had these and, despite initial promise, they behaved horribly. One particular issue was overheating and shutting down. IIRC the boot loop issue, when it eventually struck, was worked around by a hack to disable two CPU cores. Due to this and the poor performance of Wear OS (or was it still Android Wear at that time?) we switched to iPhones. I note that the reason I first got a 6P was because my 6 completely died one day and a 6P was the only available insurance replacement. Despite all this, I'm likely to by the Pixel 8 and Pixel Watch 2 to replace my iPhone 8 plus.

I still have a functional Nexus 7 that I used as an ebook reader for a long while until replacing it with a kobo e-ink device. The N7 still boots. I wonder if there's anything useful I could do with it. It paid for itself many times over in the first 3 years and everything at this point is just bonus.

Is yours the 2012 or 2013? I think they resolved the storage issue in the 2013 model. Unfortunately, I had the 2012.

2013. At 10 years old I'd bet its time to replace or get rid of the battery in there.

My thought when I read it as well. I've owned Nexus 4, 5, 6, Pixel 1, 2, 3, 4 and finally gave up. Half of these phones were purchased because the previous model crapped out. I am not a heavy phone user either. I think I stuck with them because there was always some integration with Google and iPhone that didn't make me happy, but whatever it is must have been solved by the time I got an iPhone because I'm on three years with mine. Probably won't replace it for another three years.

Nexus products weren't _technically_ made by Google. 5 was LG's design and 7 was Asus'. During this era Google specifically stuck to working on the software while passing on the technical designs to other partners.

Pixel 6 Pro and Watch are great and I've had no hardware or software issues of any kind.

> The Nexus 7's storage degraded, which rendered the device unusably slow. I thought it was the upgrade to the next version of Android that did it, but downgrading it did not fix the issue. There's been some workarounds that made it slightly more usable but ultimately it was a serious hardware defect that made it unbearably slow to use even with these workarounds.

It's worse these days than in the nexus days. Google slaps extremely cheap NAND into their phones and it ends up failing after 2-3 years of daily use. Everyone I know that uses pixel phones either cycles through a new phone yearly or gets bitten by a sudden hardware failure and swears off the brand entirely.

Frankly, Google are too cheap and they expect their users to not care. I will never forget them trying to push the idea the Nexus 10 felt like a premium device . . . to whom exactly? Shame as well, as in some important respects it was way ahead of the curve, even if fatally flawed.

Samsung hardware (and Huawei if you can still get and use it) is superb by comparison, but they just can't help themselves when it comes to the creepiness of the user experiences.

> I will never forget them trying to push the idea the Nexus 10 felt like a premium device

To be fair Nexus 10 was a premium device (with its 2GB RAM and 2560x1600 screen in 2012). I still have mine and runs without any issues (except the degraded battery).

> Samsung hardware (and Huawei if you can still get and use it) is superb by comparison

Nexus 10 was built by Samsung.

That's exactly the mentality I'm on about - specs do not mean premium. The fit and finish of that device was dreadful, as well as the overall feel in the hands. It may have been made by Samsung but the design was very Google driven.

Google simply don't understand what matters.

My Nexus 7 had the same issue. It's a shame really because for the first 18 months I owned it I loved it. In it's prime, I think it's still my all-time favorite device.

Once it slowed to the point of being unusable, I gave it to my son to tinker with. He loaded an alternative OS on it and that worked for a while but eventually it also slowed. Last I knew it was serving as a print server for his 3D printer although now I think it lives in a bin with other outdated hardware and about 100 cables that we haven't thrown out yet.

The nexus 7 storage was an issue with one particular flash module that was used in some of the units. It can even be replaced though it's a lot of work requiring specialised tools unfortunately.

IMO it's all downhill since nexus one, and Apple has just always been terrible.

I don't think Google do thermal cycling on their phones as part of the development cycle.

If they did, the phones would be much more reliable. If the phone can survive cycling between -25C and 85C 2000 times, then it will most likely survive many years in your pocket.

They should also test weeks of salt spray and hours in a tumbler with sand dust and lint.

The problem isn't so much that Google has a hard time old phones on their OS maintenance team books, and even just phoning in the effort to keep them working (hah). It's that they actively don't want to do any work that isn't sexy and supporting new products. I don't think their teams are incentivized to do so.

Let me play it out with an example.

At Apple, a team/individual might be actively told to have to use an iPhone 8 for their daily use, so they get to experience what it's like for a user with an older phone. They solve the users' pain by solving their own pain, and commit to making the experience actually better with future iOS releases. Not just keeping it working but actually making it better if possible.

Google has shown time and time again that they're not thinking like that. Or at least not setting up the company to be rewarded like that.

I will also posit that the single-handed ownership of the iOS app store makes deficiencies fall squarely on Apple, so they are more directly blamed/responsible when phone performance gets worse. With Android, and so many reasons a team could claim that other factors are causing negative trends in performance, who cares to keep making an old phone better?

I agree with the theme of your post, but I think it's often overlooked that Android doesn't necessitate full operating system updates to deliver new functionality as iOS does. Owners will regularly receive updates to basic apps such as phone, calendar, contacts, etc. through the on-going Play Store updates, even after 3 years.

This often gets brought up, but it's only because of a similar ill-discipline to what the comment you replied to is talking about.

AOSP has basic apps for all of those use cases, but presumably because it's much sexier to work on closed source in-house apps that get to be updated as often as the team feels like instead of being forced to work in the margins of the OS update schedule... they languished to the point of unusability.

I'm not even sure if they'd all run on the latest version of Android, some of them are still using Kit-Kat era UIs last I checked

It's not only that they are outdated, phone app was officially deprecated this year and I'm pretty sure it was the last one, so now android 'core apps' are officially dead

It really only has that because it is so difficult to distribute Android OS updates.

It's the superior way to do it, in my opinion. I was fighting SwiftUI released with iOS 13 until last year, and will not be able to use the much improved Navigation system released in 16 for another couple of years.

Meanwhile Jetpack Compose worked pretty much flawlessly on even old Android devices.

But the phone is still worthless and unable to be used once it stops getting security updates.

eg google killed my last pixel by cutting off security updates like one month before a full login bypass was discovered. I mean cute, I could still get updated apps... but anyone in possession of my phone could login as me.

So it's still able to be used, by even more people than before the security bug.

Hits two of the 3 Rs of recycling -- reduce and resuse!

The entire devices division of Google has to use Pixel for their daily driver...

Models that came out in 2017?

As a former Googler who worked on some Android things I can say that this is untrue. There are many other reasons why Android devices don't keep up with iOS but a lack of Googlers using them is not one of them. There are many thousands of Googlers using outdated Android devices and there is a rich internal bug reporting culture.

Anecdotally, this doesn't match my current experience working on this stuff at Google. I see a lot of effort put into backwards compatibility.

Now I'm not talking about policies, and this may or may not be true for everyone involved, but the generalisation that this isn't being worked on or incentivised does not appear true to me.

EU should just slap a 15 years compulsory warranty on all electronics, and they'd magically all become so much better.

I think 15 years is too much given how fast technology is churning.

So I think 15y might slow that down (but maybe that's good? I'm not sure). It would also probably increase prod/maintenance expenses, which would likely just be offloaded to the consumers unfortunately.

I do agree with your sentiment, though. There should be a minimum, and something like 6-8 years seems sensible to me!

This has barely ever tipped the needle for me when deciding to buy a phone. I switched to a Pixel a couple of years ago for two main features:

Call Screening - https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/9118387?hl=en

Hold for me - https://support.google.com/assistant/answer/10071878?hl=en

They're immensely valuable and I feel Apple is absolutely dumb for having equivalents baked in already. If they did, I'd happily switch over.

iOS 17 has added real time voicemail transcription in a way that sounds a lot like Android's call screening.

It's absolutely not the same feature.

Call Screening is in iOS17. I agree that Hold for me would be great on iOS.

iOS now supports live voicemails. Functionally equivalent to call screening, except a slightly different prompt.

The nice thing is this is on everything that runs ios17, instead of just the latest. Android seems to unnecessarily silo special features into just pixel phones for no apparent hardware reason. Often times you can sideload (with root access typically) the special pixel only features on any phone.

Nothing yet to compare to hold for me, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was coming soon.

> iOS now supports live voicemails. Functionally equivalent to call screening, except a slightly different prompt.

Not really. For one, the caller knows that there's someone on the other end reading it live, as opposed to live voicemail where you don't know whether your message will be seen immediately or whenever the other person decides to check their voicemails. Also call screening allows you to prompt follow up questions which you can't do with live voicemail.

I'll agree you get more features with the Google implementation, however I'm not sure it meaningfully equates to a different experience.

Unless you're worried nobody will leave a voicemail (which, I think will change over time as folks know the functionality exists), the ability to pick up if you don't recognize the number... or if someone you do know has something that's extremely urgent. Neither are navigated substanially better with the prompts Google offers.

>Unless you're worried nobody will leave a voicemail (which, I think will change over time as folks know the functionality exists),

Situation today: I get a voicemail prompt. If I leave a message it could be read anywhere immediately after I leave it or some unknown time in the future

Situation in the future: I get a voicemail prompt. If I leave a message it could be read as I record it, or some unknown time in the future

Today I'm not really inclined to leave any voicemail because it's unknown if or when it'll be read, and it's more awkward than a call or a text. I'll only leave it if there's literally no other method of communication. I don't see how having a chance that the callee will be reading the voicemail as I leave it will change this.

As it stands the main advantage of call screening is that it makes explicit that someone is on the other line. I'll admit that the advantage of being able to use follow-up prompts isn't really clear (the default prompt of "Go ahead and say your name, and why you are calling" is usually enough).

Everyone changed their behaviour when scam calls became more widespread than real calls.

Everyone now texts first. Or we ring a number when exchanging contacts in person so we know the other person got it and knows it’s real.

If this becomes useful, people will start checking their voicemails and leaving them more often.

This is my personal experience, so YMMV, but the way I see it, the live voicemails/call screening is really only useful for random numbers that may or may not be spam calls. 9/10 times (or maybe higher) it's a spam call trying to sell me a car warranty, or scam me with a tech support thing. That other 1/10 it's something I care about, and it would be nice to be able to pick up immediately instead of having to navigate some phone menu when after they leave a voicemail and I confirm that I actually needed to talk to them. Businesses don't text generally, so you're left with live phone calls or voicemails. Having them say who they are and why they're calling is something you already do in a voicemail... so there's no difference.

For actual personal contacts... a text seems like it would be the easier method 99/100 times and I don't think call screening/live voicemail is better in almost any way for personal contacts. Why add some weird AI-interaction abstraction layer to conversation with your personal contacts?

While they were at it, they could have also fixed the emergency call bug that - to my knowledge - still exists, and is an instant no from me to any pixel phone.

This is not true at all, why are you spreading this bs?

I think the less advertised feature of iOS 17 “Personal Voice” is probably laying the ground work for features like this along with the “Voicemail Screening” feature people are mentioning. https://www.macrumors.com/2023/05/17/ios-17-personal-voice-f...

I just switched over to IPhone after a solid three years on a Pixel 4a 5g and am having some adjustment pains with iOS related to lack of these features. Live transcription is another super useful feature I truly value during long, annoying calls with call menu options (IRS, hospitals, etc), since it is so helpful to see what the previous options were without having to listen to the entire damn menu again.

Then there are small annoyances like not having the option to enable auto-space after punctuation like commas and periods in messages, even with third-party keyboards like swift keybaord. And not being able to set a separate ringer and alarm volume. I keep my ringer volume very low during the day, but I depend on a loud alarm. Got to work late today as a consequence of this!

I'm already considering switching back to pixel 8 once it releases next month, especially due to the increased support. Only thing holding me back is tensor chips not yet being on par until around 2025 when Google releases its first fully custom chip.

Yeah I agree. The main one for me is being able to make all the display elements smaller (I have good eyesight). iOS seems hugely zoomed in to me and the display scaling really helps show more information in information dense apps like spreadsheets.

I also really appreciate the network diagnostics you get from an app like NetMonster.

Honestly the processor speed in the Pixel 7s is plenty fast enough. I can't imagine getting any benefit from a faster processor. I'm sure faster is better in some sense but given that there's no perceptible lag or anything I'm not sure what you'd want it to be faster for. Chrome starts in around half a second, pages render quickly, etc.

Went from a Pixel 5a to a Pixel 7 (it's pre-8 bargain season!).

After a week, I do like the Pixel 7. Great camera, snappy interface, solid build.

The battery life so far is disappointing though.

Put GrapheneOS on it and watch the battery really soar.

My single feature that keeps me on Android is notifications. I want an unobtrusive visual only (I never want my phone to vibrate or make a noise unless my wife or kid is calling) indication that there's something needing my attention. On Android a tiny icon appears in the status bar. On iOS it's an obnoxious pop up banner or nothing at all.

yes....Android notifications are much better imo. I can respond to texts/whatsapp messages just by swiping down, don't even have to open the app.

> I can respond to texts/whatsapp messages just by swiping down, don't even have to open the app.

That's been true for iOS for years now, although I can't guarantee that all messaging apps support that mode of operation.

didn't know that about iOS. On android the standard messaging app, plus other apps like whatsapp allow this. It's extremely convenient.

What about privacy for notifications when the screen is locked? For example, on android, when my phone is locked, notifications pop up, but you can't see who is calling/texting. Is that the case with iOS?

Has Google copied the "Focus" feature that allows you to have different notification settings for different activities?

For instance, when I set my focus to "at work" I may decide to mute all notifications for social media apps and send calls that aren't from my family straight to voice mail. When I'm at home or at the gym, I may want my notification settings to be completely different.

Without that feature the Android notification system is much less flexible.

my iphone is permanently in one of the focus modes and it works surprisingly well. it's work/sleep unless I expect a message or a call late night (sleep mode automatically declines calls.) there are some high priority notifications that go through in work mode, but honestly never bothered with figuring out how to make an app high or low priority or how to configure my own focus mode. it's enough for me that messages from my family pop up a high priority notification and most everything else doesn't.

I'd still be happy with just my (GrapheneOS) Pixel 3, if only it were still getting closed blob security updates.

Instead, I've had to replace it repeatedly: Pixel 3, Pixel 4a, Pixel 5, and now Pixel 6a.

Each model upgrade was a regression in size and weight. The only improvement I liked was in the cameras, but photography-wise they're still only cameraphone snapshot grade, so not a worthwhile upgrade to me. I would've rather been able to keep using the Pixel 3.

I'm looking forward to keeping the Pixel 6a awhile (once the carrier flakiness that coincided with the move the other day settles down).

(Edit: Unless there comes out some local ML model that I want that needs more processing hardware.)

I bought Pixel 6 after using Pixel 3a. "On paper" size-wise it seems nearly the same (1mm+ in each dimension) but in reality I feel like having a brick now, to the point I still prefer using my 3a on the go.

I didn't realize but 147g vs 207g makes for an enormous difference. Also 1-2mm in each dimension and now it can't fit my pockets anymore.

Samsung comes with screening pre-installed as well, although I think it's just partnership with third party and not in-house solution. But I imagine you can find the functionality simply on play store

I don't use either of those features, but the one reason I stick with Pixel phones is bloatware. The amount of useless bloatware that comes with most phones is horrid. I went with a Samsung tablet because Google (at the time) stopped making tablets. The tablet hardware is good, but even after 2 years of owning the device, I still get nagged constantly for not using samsung specific apps/features that I have zero use for. Google does do some nagging on Pixel phones for their silly features, but I have found them much easier to turn off.

Motorola phones have very little bloatware as well.

Samsung is probably the worst.

Unfortunately Motorola phones are not great when it comes to OS updates. Two major OS updates and then security patches for some time after that. Which sounds okay on paper, but man are they slow with them. I finally got Android 13 on my Edge 20 just last week! Their "bimonthly" security updates occasionally come a month late too. Maybe the experience would be different with a flagship rather than a midrange device, but I'm not willing to risk my money on such a gamble - my next phone won't be a Motorola. A shame too, their latest foldable looks quite nice.

I've been entertaining a theory that the update slowness and little bloat are somehow related - with how slow they're with updates, they probably don't have the time to code up any more bloat either.

If you are willing to use Roms you can have it earlier. My G42 is still on 12 and LineageOS at 13. Still like the phone a lot. Thinking about buying a spare one.

Those are the 2 features that stopped me as well.

However, Call Screening is now available on iOS 17 (called Live Voicemail)

I've purchased my first iPhone as of a few days ago now that they have that... I'll miss Hold for me, but it's not enough to stop me from the Pixel bugs/hardware issues I've been experiencing. The iPhone 15 is amazing so far!

I'm a long time nexus/pixel user also considering switching to iPhone. For me, it's more about wanting a good integrated smart watch, and the pixel watch seems overpriced and has a weird half-baked FitBit integration in typical Google style, and I don't want a Samsung watch or generic fitness tracker.

One thing that's been holding me back, though, is notification management. I love the little app icons at the top and the pull down shade and such. I don't have that much experience with iOS, but it seems notifications work fairly differently. Has that been an issue for you?

iOS user here. You are correct they work quite differently. I don’t have enough android experience to tell you how, but there is no equivalent of the icons at the top of the screen for various apps.

notification management on iOS is just different than on Android. It is a bit more hands off. Most recent notifications appear in your face and then they fall into the 'notification drawer' unless you take action on them, in which case they disappear. Once you adjust to it not behaving the same as Android, you get used to it.

On my android device, I never had many notifications as I would manage them and clear them. On iOS, I tend to clear them once a week, and the thought of returning to Android's notification system just seems like a lot of work.

call screening is great. Helps with spam calls. hold for me also useful but I use it less.

I think a meaningful "sustainability" goal could be to build devices that can last longer and be used longer without the need to buy the "latest" gadget. Building robust software and hardware should be part of that thinking.

On a side note a younger kid in family used this unix tool called "sed" and asked me if such advanced tools existed during "my time". I told her I was not born even after 10 years had passed since its invention.

Absolutely! It's barely touched on in the article, but it's the first "R" in reduce, reuse, recycle. By reducing our need to consume because we want updates or need security patches, we don't need to buy a phone every couple of years.

Together with the EU's replaceable battery law, this is a good step in that direction.

Unfortunately it pushes against planned obsolescence which makes companies more money, so we'll see how long the promise of updates lasts...

I wish they wouldn't even put out new devices every year, put out your best stuff every two years. Longer development cycle.

Unfortunately a lot of people keep buying them yearly

Yeh I doubt this will ever happen in a way that provides real value for pixel owners… when they started using their own chips it was meant to be 5 years, then turned out to be 3 years of updates.

They’ve had the opportunity for I provide security updates for their old pixels for years but chose not too. So this is just marketing fluff to get a few more sales…

And in typical Google style after 3 years they’ll say “yeh… about those 7 years, we really meant 3”

Pixel pass anyone?

Any source for pixel phones that were promised 5 years, only getting three?

I think they are referring to the Pixel 6 [1]. If the same happened again, Google might announce that the Pixel 8 will receive 4 or 5 years of major Android version updates and 7 years of security updates.

However, the alleged leaked specs for the Pixel 8 explicitly state "7 years of OS and security updates" [2], so I think they do actually intend on 7 years of major Android version updates.

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/19/22735485/google-pixel-6-...

[2] https://www.91mobiles.com/hub/google-pixel-8-pro-specificati...

As an owner of an Android phone (Pixel 4a) that just reached EOL and for which a potential 0-click RCE 0day was just released (the webp thing), I'd take three more years of security updates on the spot. But well, I guess time for a new phone.

Installing LineageOS is cheaper then a new phone.

Pixel 6 was promising 5 years of security updates from the start. Like, from the very first announcement. As evidence, note that your link is from the time of the launch, not some kind of bait and switch like the OP claimed.

The link referring to 7 years of update. If you follow the leaker on Twitter kamila in the original leak tweet they mention it can be 5 years of OS update + 3 years of security updates or something along the lines. The leakers isn't sure if it will be full 7 years of OS updates. I think other people reporting on the leak are failing to differentiate OS updates vs security updates making people to think Google rolled back on updates.

There's already an unpatched full login bypass

https://bugs.xdavidhu.me/google/2022/11/10/accidental-70k-go...

Unpatched on a phone that was ever promised security updates in that time window?

Is that still unpatched on the Pixel 6? As far as I can find the CVE has been patched in the Android security bulletin from 2022-11-05, which the Pixels receive (that + the patches specified in the separate Pixel security bulletin).

It looks like the Pixel 4 didn't get the update. From what I can tell, the Pixel 4/4 XL received the security updates as promised by Google during its announcement: https://web.archive.org/web/20191015163036/https://support.g...

I don't really understand why you would spend Pixel 4 XL money on a phone that will only receive three years of updates, but it's not like Google hid their support timeline from any of their customers.

There's a very important chip in the Pixel that isn't made by Google.

Honestly, pixels are the phones to get. With grapheneOS, you get a dailyable, trustable phone, with crazy good cameras and long support cycles.

And it's usually cheap, they drop fast in price, but the 8 is really expensive for some reason, lets hope it follows the same trend and just drops in price.

Something no other phones can't do, certianly not your blackbox iphone(even if apples marketing says otherwise.)

I generally agree though barely stayed with Pixel+GOS after my last Pixel refused to turn on after plugging it in before a nap, leaving me with a totally bricked phone, no way of recovering local data on the device, and a $100 bill to replace it since the screen was cracked - despite it being dead because of manufacturer defects, and a broken screen having no bearing on it's death.

If I wasn't such a fan of GrapheneOS, I would have ditched Pixel so fast.

I agree to a an existent, if you live in a supported country, you can find pixels for much cheaper with flagship features you wont find in anything in a similar price.

Can*

It'll take a lot more than that to get me to buy a Pixel phone (or any other Android, really).

1. Google needs to build up the reputation that they support phones for 7 years, currently there is no device from them that was ever supported that long.

2. Pixels are not officially sold in my country, even though I am from the European Union. I need to buy from a 3rd party with at least 50% markup and dubious support.

3. Even if I were to buy a Pixel phone, 50% of the differentiating features are not available in my country (or barely any country outside of the US) - like call screening, hold for me, book me a reservation (I forgot the name of this feature).

Anyone needs reminding that you can't trust what Google promises especially when it comes to their products?

Long time Google/Pixel fan... because I love pain and broken promises.

Do you have an overview of what Pixel devices didn't get their promised security updates? I've gone as far back as the original Google Pixel and they seem to have stuck to their update policy in for that device (https://web.archive.org/web/20161122015826/https://support.g...):

    Pixel phones get security patches for at least 3 years from when the device first became available, or at least 18 months from when the Google Store last sold the device, whichever is longer.

I'm sure Pixel customers who didn't read up on the software support duration were disappointed that they only got three years of updates, but Google seems to have kept their promises with Android at the very least.

IoT crap is a different story, though. Then again, I don't think there's a single IoT vendor that I trust to provide security updates for a normal amount of time.

I've been using the Pixel 4a since it came out and it's been rock solid. I'll probably go for the Pixel 8 Pro because of the telephoto camera, so very happy it'll be supported longer. Could Google mandate longer updates from OEMs in general? Or is that not feasible?

OEMs have significantly prolonged their update cycles too - both Samsung and Xiaomi are now promising 5 year support for their top models.

> OEMs

That's OEM, singular, for many markets, including the US, where Xiaomi isn't sold.

US is the exceptional market that not welcoming Chinese devices. Xiaomi is sold on other developed/developing countries.

The fact that you let carriers destroy free market in US kinda isn't an issue with Android.

I don't understand. I can get an iPhone on any carrier, and get long term updates. What does this have to do with carriers? (genuine question)

Pixel 4a was a very good phone but also sadly not waterproof.

I am bummed that all the newer Pixels are bigger.

I am not a big fan of stock android but I'm looking to switch to a pixel next phone in order to use GrapheneOS. Their hardware isn't bad, IMO. My nexus 5x did have the storage slow ess problem, though.

I was a total convert to the Pixel 7 Pro until two weeks ago (check my comment history). Now my phone goes black when the slightest amount of pressure is applied to the center of the screen. Spent over an hour in support hell (and 6-8 hours of backups/migrating to a spare phone/etc) to be told to go to an Asurion center to get my phone fixed.

Had a lot of hope and goodwill lost on this phone. I feel like I paid a premium price (over $1100) only to get shoddy service and a shoddy product that will fail just outside the warranty period. As much as I dislike the iPhone, at least I can walk into an Apple store and get support right away, and not the Google runaround.

iFixit sells genuine replacement parts for all Pixels, including displays. You can fix it yourself if you want.

I've had part of the touchscreen die on my Pixel 3a. A 1cm wide, vertical strip down the phone just wasn't recognizing any touches anymore. I contacted support, showed them the problem, and they had me reset and send it in. Got a replacement phone without a problem.

Maybe EU support / warranty is better than in the US?

> at least I can walk into an Apple store and get support right away

I understand the value of being able to speak to someone but Apple support has again and again shown that they overcharge, tell customers x needs to be changed when it doesn't have to etc.

Sure, you maybe can get help but the help will charge you close to a new device while they do everything in their power to reduce your ability to turn the device in to a third party repair shop.

The obvious choice here is to give third party repair shops more power so everyone, everywhere, can get help getting their phones/devices fixed no matter what brand it is.

Well, no pixel 8 for me. Pixel 7a will be my last pixel phone.

I thought pixel 7a would be a nice upgrade from my pixel 4a. Three months later, the battery barely lasts a a day, and the microphone stopped working clearly due to a software bug, ie, it works on calls and videos, but not on applications.

While making voice calls on a Bluetooth system, the connection randomly drops, and when it connects back, the microphone doesn't work, only speaker. Very poor product for the price.

The wireless charging charges 1% per hour. There are probably more issues I can't remember right now

> The wireless charging charges 1% per hour

Hmm, Iphone 14 pro max takes 2h15 to charge on the cable, so roughly 2x as much, even longer wirelessly. The other points may be a fair critique but this one isn't. My Galaxy 22 ultra takes also around 1% per hour wired, I don't see any issue there, this is what non-chinese flagships deliver now/last year.

Eh? If a phone takes an hour to charge 1%, that means charging it fully requires a little over four days.

Okay you've run into problems but it's probably worth noting that this is not typical. Most people rave about the "a" line of pixel phones and they definitely last longer than 3 months before completely malfunctioning like yours is.

I'm not sure how easy it is to repair but I'd be shocked if you're not still within your warranty period and you couldn't get a replacement for your clearly defective device.

For what it’s worth, the Pixel 7 series (and maybe 6) has compatibility issues with some wireless chargers. It’s actually quite quick if you find one that plays nice: I measure 12-15 watts, so not much slower than wired. Incompatible chargers pull 3 watts or less, disconnect frequently, and often don’t even offset the phone’s regular drain.

I had to try a few to find one that works properly in my car. I’ve had good luck with chargers from Anker and Peak Design, and bad luck with Apple, JSAUX, and Spigen branded chargers. Google’s own chargers presumably work fine as well.

(Also, a lot of Qi chargers are extremely picky about the USB-PD or QC specs of the power adapter you use. I highly recommend using a USB power/voltage monitor to make sure they negotiate PD or QC power at 9/12v rather than the base 5v/1a. Without that, you’ll be charging at an absolute maximum of 5 watts before Qi losses.)

I am looking to upgrade my old Pixel 3 XL. I use my phone with I love Google cameras and pure android software. I don't like Samsung UIs. I am wondering what a good option for me beside Google is phones.

Sony, Asus, Nothing & Motorola all pretty much run stock Android.

Sony phones are really bad with updates. They have very short 2 year update and the updates are extremely buggy almost making the phone a brick. Look at Xperia 5 iv android 13 same with Xperia 5 iii. Nothing is good with updates, Motorola updates are stable but still have short update cycle and security updates are not monthly for most phones.

you can install another launcher on samsung and get pixel-like xp without compromising on hardware. Zenfone is a bit worse for hard, better for software, but much worse for update support. Fairfone is too chunky but 8y of OS updates

The cynical part of me wonders if that point is still under debate internally at google and if one of the goals of the leak was publicizing it so Google can't backtrack internally.

Knowing how Google shortlives their products time after time, I'll pass, thanks.

Can anyone explain how this works in modern Android? Do the drivers for this specific hardware live in Treble? Can they "just" drop a new kernel in a point release, like linux 6.5 vanilla? Or linux 8.5 vanilla in the year 2030?

I am not an Android user, but do have some interest in following what is happening. I do have interest in mobile Linux, currently I am using Sailfish OS with libhybris drivers and an old kernel.

No, the kernel doesn't get updated (usually). Security patches get back ported and Android releases can run on multiple kernel versions.

It would be more impressive (and build trust a lot more) to unilaterally extend the support period of existing devices.

I think Pixel 6 owners are in a good spot. We can wait one more year until production kinks have been ironed out, get a Pixel 8 at a reduced price, and get 6 years of updates out if it. Until next year, Google and other phone makers might be forced by the EU to implement easy to replace batteries.

I'm pleasantly surprised -- this makes pixels much more easy to recommend to relatives. Still not the top choice over iphones, as those are just much easier to maintain as the designated family tech support guy, but at least it's not completely out of the picture.

I'm writing this on a pixel right now and I wish success to pixel, but I would bet that google won't provide 7 years of major android updates. It will be 4-5 years tops, and then they will just notify people about discontinuing it like with pixel pass.

3 years of major android updates and then only security updates are totally acceptable for me, as long as they are clear upfront about that

Had the Nexus 4, Pixel 2XL, Pixel 3, Pixel 6, now I own a Pixel 7, and I'll never buy one again. It's a 90% done product. Software instability all around. Battery always round, bugs with dictation. Enough is enough.

Still based on legacy ISA (proprietary ARM instead of open standard RISC-V), and still lacking the EU-mandated swapable battery.

Perhaps the next one. Patience.

Doesn't matter. No headphone jack = no sale. I'm not about to carry around a dongle to be able to listen to music off my phone.

Lets be real here, you probably cannot afford a new phone if you have to cheap out with wired headphones/earbuds on a mobile device in 2023.

> cheap out with wired

That is not correct. Please do not say that.

It is if you care about ANC and convenience of use. At home wired is obviously king :)

Noise cancelling isn't incompatible with wires...

And both wired and wireless have their own convenience problems. But the wireless ones are more frustrating in my experience.

What's inconvenient about wireless ones with ANC versus wired ones with ANC?

Pairing problems, occasional dropouts, and the biggest one, delay.

Never had any of those. Define delay, maybe I have it.

https://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Pictures/Hardware/Bl...

https://www.0db.co.kr/files/attach/images/179/725/105/002/eb...

Bluetooth usually introduces some pretty big delays to sound. Sometimes video players can synchronize themselves, but controls will have a weird lag even for audio-only applications and hopefully you don't want to do anything interactive.

And speaking of interactive, your typical bluetooth device will drop to horrendous quality if you switch into headset mode.

It's nice to have a set of earbuds I don't have to worry about having charged.

That said, since I changed over to a device without a headphone jack, it's never been a problem after maybe a month of adjustment. It's really just one more device added to my charging routine.

with reverse charging it's not a problem? From pixel 5, I could charge my earbuds from the phone, no problem. 5 mins of charge are enough to keep me entertained for at least 30mins

I was buying expensive wired earbuds long before airpods were a thing. if anything, they normalized spending $200 on audio equipment.

passive audio protection > active sound canceling. Unlike most people, I don't find losing earbuds and surprisingly discharged earbuds to be 'features'.

Factually incorrect. Most high-end audiophile headphones are only wired. And we're talking 400$+.

If I believe AudioScienceReview, phones with a dedicated DAC (much of LG) are far better, spec-wise, than phones using the amp in a modern Snapdragon handset.

In other words, you're plugging expensive headphones into a mediocre driver.

Cost is not the only reason to prefer wired over wireless.

If there was a bluetooth profile that was duplex and had acceptable audio playback I would consider paying for a good pair, again. But mSBC, being the best available, is mono only and sounds like a 90s phone call.

Bluetooth Low Energy Audio with the LC3 codec should be finally able to do it. And some of the newer headphones support that. In theory. How good this works in practice, I don't know, manufacturers aren't even advertising proper duplex, probably because they would have to admit that the old mechanism is just crap.

That's actually exciting. I'll keep an eye out for that for sure. And I agree I think this is not talked about because we would collectively agree that what we have is shit.

nah, cables have their niche use cases.

I for example like to ride my bicycle with some earbuds, the cables help me to wrap it around my helmet strap so they are very tight in my ear, and I don't have to worry about losing an airpod when riding rough terrain.

I haven't found the same satisfaction with bluetooth buds. I had some Jabra's that were connected to each other with a cable, but then the receiver is in a location that somehow blocks bluetooth reception when the phone is in my back pocket.

I can afford wireless earbuds fine. I like them less. They offer no utility, and in fact are a downgrade (since they have to be charged/can easily be lost), AND I have to pay more for the privilege. Why on earth would I ever choose to pay more for worse functionality?

The Moondrop and Apple USB-C DAC are so small, and tested by audiofools to be top notch yet are hardly much larger than a 3.5 cable.

I have them both are they sound pretty good to me with my assortment of Chifi IEMs.

It's not about sound quality, it's about the fact that I don't want to have to carry a dongle. Nor do I want to use Bluetooth earbuds, which are just worse in every way (since I have no problem with wires). Moreover, a 3.5mm headphone jack is a universal audio interface, or was up until Apple decided to "think different" and other manufacturers followed them like lemmings. It's incredibly useful, and was jettisoned without a real alternative.

Just get a tiny dongle for <$5 and leave it attached on the end of your headphone cable.

regardless of whether this is true, buying a pixel usually meant having a good custom rom ecosystem.

unsure how much that is true after the switch to their custom soc. but the most demanding users (us enthusiasts) also tend to be savvy with this sort of things.

since everyone's listing their requirements, i'd like dp over usb-c in the new one before i consider getting one.

Having switched to an iPhone, the thing that I realize now bothers me the most about android phones is the battery life. So many things about iOS frustrate me but the battery life alone makes up for all of that. I don’t understand why Qualcomm and Samsung feel the need to have 8 cores of 3 different types when Apple’s formula works so well.

I would take any promise by any tech giant with a massive cube of salt, a glass of bleach, and about a gallon of fentanyl.

Has even a single Android phone received a major or minor kernel update ever (ex: 5.4 -> 5.10)? That felt like what Treble & creating an entirely Android specific way of building kernel modules (the GKI, "Generic Kernel Image", specifically for Android) was for.

Instead of having to upstream modules or support them against an ever-moving kernel interface, the kernel could move & drivers would have a special Android specific interface to code against that would be stable. That was the plan, yes?

But I'm not sure this has ever actually happened or gotten used yet? Android wrote it's own wrapper for the kernel, but is it even having the upside it was built for?

Recent thread on a 2021 post on Android kernel dev: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37612699

I assume you mean major version? Because the kernel gets updated all the time otherwise.

My Nokia 6.2 got updates from Android 9 to Android 10 and Android 11.

Android updates often do not come with kernel updates. Major kernel updates are difficult because of the tangle of proprietary modules in most Android kernels.

To partially answer GP's question:

Unofficial major kernel updates have happened in the past. OnePlus 6T, for example, shipped with 4.9.x, but supports mainline on pmOS.

I own a Linux running OnePlus 6T. :)

Still not sure if any Android upgrade has ever had a major or minor kernel upgrade.

The 8 looks seriously amazing.

I'm almost tempted to try to wait another year till the next generation (Hopefully with swappable batteries and UWB in the base model), but the battery on my current phone is a bit worn.

It feels Google phones are very nice prototype projects from a darling business unit. Used to show off cool software for trade shows.

> darling business unit

It's HTC. Google poached thousands of employees from HTC and it shows in the subpar build and component quality.

our solemn vow to continue degrading the performance of the swipe keyboard for nearly a decade is unmatched in the industry

I mean, this was mandated by the EU recently, right? So we should expect ALL manufacturers switch to this soon.

Are Google's promises worth the paper they're written on?

Call me when they actually provide the 7th year of updates.

Batteries don't live that long.

I replaced my Pixel XL battery earlier this year, still works great as a backup and/or hacker news browsing device.

All the more reason for user replaceable batteries.

They're not very difficult to replace.

Grandma isn't replacing her phone battery anytime soon. It wasn't that long ago, replacing a phone battery was as easy as replacing the batteries in my tv remote. Even grandma could do that.

U can buy her a fairfone :D It's battery can be swapped like in old times

It wasn't so long ago there were local repairmen grandmas took things go fix.

How can you trust that Google will still be making Pixel phones in 7 years?

I'm curious about how they're going to manage this at the same time Linux LTS kernels are returning to being supported for 2 years rather than 6: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37591050

The Fairphone is aiming to upstream their new phone's drivers. Chromebooks typically run a much closer to mainline kernel than Android devices.

https://liliputing.com/fairphone-5-is-a-repairable-e699-smar...

https://lore.kernel.org/linux-pm/20230830-fp5-initial-v1-0-5...

Android common kernels(ACK) are downstream of Linux kernels with so many patches which are not there in the Linux kernels. So Linux having short 2 years update cycle doesn't have much implication on ACK.

That's a disappointing answer if it is really the case. One has to question why they can't forward port their changes for a handful of years.

They have been been upstreaming patches to the kernel. In fact Android works with a stock Linux kernel now.

For the nonexistent Pixel 8? Or are you referring to running on a Pixel 6a, for example:

https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Google_Pixel_6a_(google-b...

This device is marked as not booting.

I'm stating a general fact that the patches in ACK are not needed for Android to work.

Many past Pixel devices, which are still in support, cannot seem to run a mainline kernel.

ACK is built on top of the LTS, so it done impact how long a version of ACK exists.

Major OS version updates or just security updates near the end of life?

Honestly, I'd be happy with only security patches. The lack of them after 12-18 months (I don't buy my phones on release day, usually about 6 months after) is what drove me away from Android. I'm on year 3 with my iPhone and don't see myself going back unless Apple really drops the ball or turns evil.

All of my Pixel devices have had the battery explode well before the 7 year mark.

I have worked as an Android developer for many years and have had 10+ Pixel devices with swollen batteries.

This is nice on paper but I honestly don't think the hardware will last this long.

You've had 10 devices develop bloated batteries?

There has to be an environmental factor. Note 7 devices failed less consistently than that and they were eradicated from the market.

It's possible to replace batteries. They are the only real wear part in a phone, so there's no reason a phone wouldn't work for many years if they're replaced every 2-3 years.

My Nexus phone was the only one that had ever developed a swollen battery in my lifetime.

Could this be tentative due to discontinuation of LTS kernels?

Thats almost 1.999 stadia lengths of lifetimes support.

I'll probably just stick with my 5.

When will we get our own local LLM?

Should’ve thought about it before I put my whole family on iPhones for this exact reason. My kids run iPhone 8 without any issues.

It's still a device wedded to an OS that wants your data shipped off to a company that knows how to use it against you vs a device iOS put out by a company that seems so wildly inept in this space that they just went whole-hog on privacy, at least publicly.

> It's still a device wedded to an OS that wants your data shipped off to a company that knows how to use it against you vs a device iOS put out by a company that seems so wildly inept in this space that they just went whole-hog on privacy, at least publicly.

Apple still sells your user data to advertisers, they just want to be the only one to do so, for profit.

Apple displays a goddamn relevant result in the AppStore, while Google actively makes use of every single movement you make — it is just a completely dishonest comparison and has no basis in reality. This is the non-political version of EnLIGhteNEd centrism.

Still, making billions with your data and a failed promise of privacy.

https://proton.me/blog/apple-ad-company

They are no better than anyone else, they just convinced you so.

They make more money with much much more primitive “targeting” because they are sitting on top their own platform with no competition. If someone wants to display their ad on the Apple platform, they pay apple.

I don’t mind being targeted by searching for “mobile game” in the app store and it displays a mobile game ad, and maybe even used up that I’m a male in his 20s. That just can’t be compared in good faith to what google or facebook does.

I thought it was just me! Search on the Google Play store is just useless. It shows you 1-2 relevant results if you're lucky, then a few pages of ads, followed by completely unrelated results. When I know full well that what I'm searching is there (and indeed it shows up in Aurora Store or even google search no problem).

If you can't find the app you searched for directly, it usually means that play store deemed your phone incompatible (for whatever reason) and hide the result, nothing to do with the search quality

If you don’t the name of the app you want, the iOS App Store search is garbage too.

Not true in my experience. If I search for a topic rather than an app name, Apple gives me relevant results all the way down and generally of decent quality. Google starts showing me fake flashlight apps by the fifth result or so.

> your data shipped off to a company that knows how to use it against you

OK I hate Google as much as the next guy but that's just ridiculous. In what way does Google use your data against you? How would that be profitable?

I guess you might consider targeted ads as being assault against you?

> I guess you might consider targeted ads as being assault against you?

I'm not OP, but yeah I kind of do. See also: police and government agencies buying personal data, which they Totally Only Use For Good Guy Stuff I Promise.

Did you know that Apple also uses your data to target ads to you?

...Yes?

> In what way does Google use your data against you?

Ever been in the vicinity of a crime being committed by someone else?

> Google has received thousands of geofence warrants each quarter since 2018, and at times accounted for about one-quarter of all U.S. warrants that Google receives.

https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/19/google-geofence-warrants/

Like this guy, for instance.

> Based on faulty location data from Google, Avondale police arrested an innocent 23-year-old man and accused him of a crime punishable by death.

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/google-geofence-locatio...

I can de-Google a Pixel way past the extent I can de-Apple an iPhone.

e: downvoters, any counterpoint? Please show me where Graphene is leaking info, or, conversely, how to obtain code-signing privs equivalent to Apple keys on iOS.

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