Worm that jumps from rats to slugs to human brains has invaded Southeast US | Hacker News Reader

Worm that jumps from rats to slugs to human brains has invaded Southeast US

arstechnica.com

140 pointsamichail62 comments

> This can start with nonspecific symptoms like headache, light sensitivity, and insomnia and develop into neck stiffness and pain

Oh good, now I can be worried that every symptom of "getting old" is actually a brain parasite.

Think of it as an excuse.

Note, those are generally meningitis symptoms, so that was already pretty solid anxiety fuel if you wanted something to worry about whenever your neck is stiff!

They're also anxiety symptoms haha.

The rule of thumb for me meningitis I've heard is that if you're experiencing the worst headache of your like, get to a doctor.

I think it might actually be meningitis: "Although some people show no symptoms when infected, sometimes it causes a rare type of meningitis (eosinophilic meningitis). However, in most cases, the parasite will die over time - humans are not its preferred host."

It’s just worms; not my dying youth.

There was a famous and tragic case of an Australian teenager who ate a slug on a dare, suffered a horrible illness, and eventually died from rat lungworm.

https://time.com/5445715/australia-slug-dare-sam-ballard/

When I was a kid, I don't remember that my parents ever thought me that I shouldn't eat slugs. Somehow I figured it out on my own.

Responses like this are so shitty, and you should feel bad for making it. A lot of people do risky or silly things when they're teenagers - very few of them pay the price with their lives. I don't eat slugs either, but "dying a horribly painful death due to a worm in my brain" wouldn't be high up on the things I would have been concerned about (until I read about that story, that is).

But congrats on showing the world what a superiorly smart guy you are.

When I was six or so, I ate a leaf of poison ivy on a dare. Made $5!

I should add that I was already quite sure that I wasn’t allergic to poison ivy, at least via skin contact. I didn’t notice any ill effects.

When I was six or so, my neighbors would burn a pile of leaves during autumn leaf raking season (this was apparently common back in the '70's). That year they included poinson ivy in the pile and the resulting smoke left the whole family with external (skin) and internal (lungs) poison ivy rashes.

> A lot of people do risky or silly things when they're teenagers - very few of them pay the price with their lives.

This is precisely the nature of risk.

We don't live in a deterministic world where everyone who eats slugs dies. If we did, that kid wouldn't have eaten a slug.

No, we live in a world with uncertainty. If you eat a slug, almost for sure nothing bad will happen.

The person in question was an adult around 19 years old. At this age one must surely know that eating bad foods would cause stomach problems, vomiting, etc.

Guy must have been intoxicated or had other problems to do such an abnormal thing. There’s a lesson here, but it’s fair to point out that lesson isn’t “don’t eat slugs” as most people already understand this.

At 19 most people are still firmly under the influence of peer pressure. Just because you're legally adult doesn't mean you're quite a fully formed person yet.

> At this age one must surely know that eating bad foods would cause stomach problems, vomiting, etc.

Probably worth it for the cool points in his risk assessment. Had death been part of the calculation he'd probably not have done it.

There were many things as a kid I shouldn't have done and did. Punishment by parasite and horrible death for a strange mistake, is pretty harsh.

Can you give me an example of something you shouldn't have done and did? I'm curious to see if I'm gonna go "oh you're right, I did the same, so silly". My guess is no.

I think it's right that the punishment fits the crime, and for a dumb teenager that doesn't understand microbiology and parasites, I would cut him some slack.

Obviously I can't personally ressurect dead kids, but approving of death for ignorant behavioural errors, is a bit beyond the pale.

Didn't answer my question.

Also, I didn't approve of anything. I wish it hadn't happened.

He was ~19 years old. If by that time one doesn’t know about microbes, or understands why eating random creatures raw is a bad idea, then they have significant issues.

Nobody’s approving anyone’s death either, your insinuations are unjustified.

Deep down you believe that this is due to you being better in so e way. The reality is that it’s dumb luck. You were a dumb kid like everyone else was. For all we know you spent all your time inside and were afraid of slugs. A kid died and snide comments about ‘personal responsibility’ add nothing.

> For all we know you spent all your time inside

What's wrong with spending all your time inside? I don't know any kid who spent all his time outside and turned out well.

> The reality is that it’s dumb luck.

If there's any luck here, was that I had parents who told me things like "don't do things just to impress people". Me not eating a slug was not luck.

I find it so out of touch that you can't concieve that not all kids are the same. Not all kids do things on "dares".

Not eating slugs is not “dumb luck” and not all kids are equally “dumb”. Yes, kids are particularly vulnerable to groupthink and peer pressure and can’t evaluate risks properly, but that doesn’t make them dumb.

I grew up in a village, spent my childhood in gardens, on fields or playing in the dirt and *nobody* I ever knew would eat a slug or any other kind of creature for that matter. The thought never even crossed anyone’s mind, why the hell would you even do that?

Thank you for spelling my thoughts out so eloquently. Often times I start typing something out of hn and immediately get tired of explaining obvious stuff and end up doing a half assed job..

"Susceptibility of Angiostrongylus cantonensis Larvae to Anthelmintic Drugs"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9255552/

> The macrocyclic lactones (ivermectin, salamectin, moxidectin) and the imidazothiazole levamisole, were the most effective drugs, with IC50 ranging from 2.2 to 2.9 µM and a rapid onset of action. Albendazole, the most widely used anthelmintic in humans, had a slower onset of action, but an IC50 of 11.3 µM was achieved within 24 h.

Also mentions "pyrantel pamoate," which i think may be available in pet dewormer formulas.

Do these cross the blood-brain barrier? I suppose if the worm has made it into the brain they would have to?

albendazole will

> They may eat undercooked snails or inadvertently eat an infected slug or snail hiding in their unwashed salad.

Should we be worrying about salad? I always do my best to wash stuff like broccoli, etc but I always assume things "slip through".

Try preparing leeks and if you can do it without biting sand your vegetable washing strategy is probably pretty good.

Leeks are easier than salad though. The part with the roots is "closed" so just cut off the tip and rinse a bit. For the end with the leaves you make a 3-4 cm lengthwise cut where the stem ends, then you can hold this part open and rinse under running water.

In either case I chop the vegetable up and go through three rounds of submerging, agitating, and straining. Seems to do the job.

Hah! I’ve got a long way to go.

Yes, if they're not already washed. https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/communication/leafy-greens.ht...

I found a snail, only about 3mm long, in a thoroughly-washed arugula salad I made at home. They can be small enough to be easily overlooked and at the same time large enough to not wash through the holes of a colander, and they may be stuck on the leaves instead of falling out like stones.

Same here, on multiple occasions. Probably very unscientific of me but I'm sort of thinking that rucola (arugula) may be more prone to slug hitchhiking than other greens? That's in part why I tend to favor watercress, not without its share of nasty parasite risks [1] but have so far never found slugs in it.

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/fasciola/index.html

I've found that if you let the greens soak in water for a while the slugs and snails will fall off. Might not work for all types but it's worth a shot

I'm very thorough with my broccoli washing, and even the most densely packed broccoli florets will have insects right at the point they meet the smallest stem. I essentially stopped worrying about it - assuming - we're all eating bugs - maybe lots - and we don't see any widespread disease. But now maybe this is about to change, one more thing to add to my laundry list of anxieties :(

Don't you boil the broccoli for a while too? (Then any snails and worms die?)

Broccoli makes good salads or just a snack (eaten with ranch dressing).

> Should we be worrying about salad?

Not in the Southeast US...

two of my family members are chemists at usda. they dont eat fruit or produce except the kind you can peel like oranges and bananas. plants are covered in feces, worms, pesticides and you cant sit there with a toothbrush scrubbing it all off. a quick rinse isnt going to do shit. especially for the pesticides. also its become clear that most plants arent good for your health even when they arent covered in terrible shit.

Given that I eat lettuce every day, how come I never got rat lungworm? Am I incredibly lucky? Or is getting it from lettuce incredibly rare?

The parasite is mainly in Hawai'i (it reported said that many Hawai'ians do not eat salads anymore) and now Florida, expanding northwards in North America.

Up in Canada I've been eating my garden leafy greens, but experts say global warming and globalization are involved in the spread.

This year they found rat lungworm in Valencia, Spain. Experts are calling this an emerging disease problem, previously confined to tropic and subtropical countries.

This is one good application for indoor/vertical farming.

Most aren't, but this one is.

Soon we will all be eating hydroponic lettuce

because you live in a privileged fairyland. other worms, like those found in pork, are common in countries that dont eliminate them in the food supply. people get sick from drinking tap water. if north america had to drpemd on washing their hands to prevent worms instead of being babied by the gorvernmemt, wed be worse off than india.

Western Europe. Is that a privileged fairyland?

You write like you've been sniffing paint fumes.

yes, western europe is probably the most privileged place on planet earth. im not sure how you thought that was clever

Wait I thought you hated government? Western Europe is privileged because government enforces regulations.

It works really well, you should come by and check it out. Get in touch, I'll find you a place to stay.

wow you are remarkably stupid. i said the government babies us, which is true, and says nothing about whether i like or dislike the government. i will not be getting in touch because you are a vapid idiot.

I am curious for more about their choices but, what? Most plants aren't good for your health?

If they truly work at USDA they can't be of the opinion that most meat in the US is any good...

What exactly do they eat?

lol

I've seen a documentary about this: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091630/

Reality is stranger than fiction.

I have so many questions! Can anyone comment on the significance of doing this research in a zoo? I'm guessing it was a crime of opportunity since that's where zoologists work and can easily collect dead animals, but what does that mean for the research? Is it likely to be a representative sample of animals in the wild, despite the exposure to exotic animals from all over the world? If they were exposed there and a population established itself among zoo rats, how likely is it to spread from there?

What's up with that life cycle? Rat to snail seems like a weird combo. Usually parasites' lifecycle is a little more obvious like Leucochloridium paradoxum which infects snails that are then eaten by birds, who spread the eggs via droppings, or Toxoplasma gondii which gives rats a hankering for cat pee. What's the deal with the snails? Did the parasite just evolve in a field somewhere, where snails frequently came into contact with field rat droppings?

I wonder how many more pathogens are just waiting for some lucky exposure to break into the human population. Even before COVID brought that idea front and center, I remember going down a wikipedia rabbit hole during the Ebola outbreak and there is some terrifying stuff out there like hendra and nipah viruses with >50% mortality rates.

>some terrifying stuff out there like hendra and nipah viruses with >50% mortality rates.

These viruses are fortunately self-limiting. We should be terrified when a less deadly variant comes up.

Not if it gets some covid genes. What makes covid a pita, is you can spread it for weeks, without apparent symptoms.

Other viruses exist with long incubation times, and transmissabilty, too.

Imagine 70% mortality with that.

Finally, something that fixes the housing market.

Hantavirus. Domestic to NA, high mortality rate, in many mouse populations.

Just waiting for a human to human leap.

> What's the deal with the snails?

Perhaps simply that snails have high area of contact w/ the soil, eating various things found there or just above, and have soft bodies to boot.

Read: potentially easy carriers for larvae like these.

The rats, or that some people like to eat snails, are just 'coincidence'.

Are there theories for how it proliferated in this area? The article didn't mention anything.

Rats hitch a ride on transcontinental shipping all the time.

Giant snails kept as pets (and traded / poached from the wild) could be another way to spread between countries.

This has been an issue on Hawaii's Big Island for some time, to the point where they warn tourists not to prepare any local vegetation themselves.

I think I'd trust myself more than an overworked minimum wage restaurant worker to properly clean veggies.

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