Subways cost two to seven times more to build in the USA than Europe or Japan
nextbigfuture.com
nextbigfuture.com
This is a shame because comprehensive metros would transform our cities, enable infill housing, and help abate the housing crisis that is at the root of so many issues we’re facing.
Didn't read TFA but if the US is more expensive than that per mile then yeah you're really doing it wrong :P
- https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-...
Quite a lot more expensive per mile.
There’s a long list of reasons for this. Sadly, we can’t fix it because we have lacked real leadership for decades (pick a number).
The fitness function that drives our governmental system and process does not have a set of variables that measure good outcomes, particularly in the long term. Instead, we have devolved into a system full of idiots (politicians) lying, scheming and throwing fecal matter at each other.
As long as people keep voting for these clowns nothing will improve. And, yes, there is a point of no return.
Note that I have not identified a single political party.
The average BART fare is $3.96 and that's average, it can go up to double that of you go a long distance.
A get you anywhere in the system ticket on the Paris Metro is 2.10 euros/2.34 USD.
London is a bit more, it's 3.5 pounds/4.6 usd
Tokyo looks cheaper
New York is 2.90.
I think it's just the bay area that's particularly expensive here. Suprise.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2023/09/22/dc-...
Most of BART's ridership is between San Francisco and Oakland, which is what the most recent service cuts targeted. The suburbanites that see their fares subsidized by the urban riders got service increases. Go figure.
Totally, and with the stabbings, not good. They had 2 in 48 hours at one point.
In the US management of projects is generally handled at the local level with state and federal governments only lending financial support. In any given location, any particular type of project is unlikely to be done more than once every few decades, so it is likely that none of the people involved in management have much if any experience with the specific subdisciplines a project would require, nonetheless up to date on best practices. Further, local governments simply can't afford to retain large staffs of highly specialized engineers. They may hire extremely costly consultants but there's no guarantee those consultants actually know what they are doing and their insight may be disregarded anyways. There is fairly little incentive to rein in budgets as they try to appease as many local stakeholders as possible, again none of whom are likely to recognize that their requests may be impractical. Contracts are likely to be awarded to local companies who have little experience and will need to reinvent the wheel when they inevitably face unexpected but common issues. These issues cause massive delays which are the real source of expense for most projects. Because the costs are consistently higher than expected, the higher level governments need to be willing to dispense larger grants, which in turn leads to a normalization of excessive costs.
While it is a well recognized problem, overhauling how the US finances its projects is no easy feat. For the federal government especially there are concerns about their ability to make decisions about local projects beyond offering voluntary grants, and more generally people do not like a remote government's interference in local affairs. There's also the fear that in rejecting a grant for a necessary project (even if the plan for that project is terrible) it appears to oppose the idea of fixing the underlying problem. Finally, the US gives an enormous amount of power to individuals and private organizations to legally challenge public plans which means any top down effort to impose restraint on local decision makers is basically doomed to failure.
People can call it graft or incompetence or mismanagement but this puts the blame on the specific people involved, and implies that if it were different people we would no longer have these issues. Unfortunately it is an issue with the system, which is why we see exactly the same issues across the country no matter who is in charge. We shouldn't throw our hands up in defeat, but we need to recognize the issue is real and will not be trivial to deal with.
> local governments simply can't afford to retain large staffs of highly specialized engineers. They may hire extremely costly consultants
But...
My father spent much of his career working as a government consultant on early-stage infrastructure projects, usually requirements analysis and grant writing.
This is not lucrative work.
My father started his career as a state government employee, a pool of analysts who are in turn tasked with helping local government agencies. In later years, he was a private sector consultant, covering the entire western region of the United States. His office was a corner of the living room. Southwest Airlines does not have a business class.
By no means do I wish to complain, or deny the existence of government pork. I'm proud of his work and the improvements I got to see in some of the impoverished communities he managed to help, and I learned one way that local infrastructure projects can be undertaken efficiently.
I wish my Dad were still around so I could ask him about this.
As often as they are utilised in the planning stage, they are also called in as expert witnesses and negotiators when projects do go off the rails.
And yet, here these things work all quite well. There must be something else. Maybe a continuity problem in government where a party switch leads to many public officials being replaced? Or are they just not paid enough, so you get the bottom of the barrel?
Public infrastructure has positive feedback loops, so if your neighbor canton has good train stations, you also want to have good train stations to connect to them.
You also don't want to depend on importing expensive oil, especially as a land-locked country.
Amazingly, some of it also comes from union contracting requirements. There’s some good reporting on NYC transit issues - hiring a dozen people to do the job of two, for instance.
E.g. one thing I‘d wish every legal system would introduce is an expiry date for laws - if a majority cannot be reached again after a set amount of time, the law would be removed. For efficiency this could be combined with an exponential backoff algorithm - e.g. the expiry dates are set 10, then 20, then 50, then every 100 years in the future.
[0]: https://transitcosts.com/transit-costs-study-final-report/
I’m not sure about that. Real estate in Western Europe isn’t really cheaper.
Also I doubt any of this is particularly related to individual construction workers, their motivation or lack thereof.
In a way only the US can do, we need to kill the romance with trains and subways and just be practical. Wheels are wheels. Put the money into comfortable new buses; keep them clean and well-maintained; and reduce car traffic in the city centers by creating designated busways and major parking facilities.
It was honestly be great if I could drive to within 15 miles of LA and park my car in a secure parking lot and get on an an express bus into the city center. That’s my dream.
https://thecityfix.com/blog/are-trains-better-than-bus-rapid...
With BRT, city traffic flow must be adjusted. But this is a good thing: less cars in the inner city encourages use of public transportation.
Commercial interests have traditionally balked at reducing car traffic in the inner city. There is fear that if people can’t drive to their store, they won’t come at all.
But in the post-Covid reality, retail in the inner city is primarily for inner city dwellers-not for suburbanites. Work-from-home keeps many in the suburbs anyway. And finally, online retail is continuing to grow.
The time has come for commercial real estate interests to recognize that the value of their properties is in the uniqueness of the most valuable aspect of the city experience. Their commercial spaces need to become “experience destinations”. This experience can only be enhanced by clean and comfortable rapid transit.
BRT is roughly 20% of the cost of subways.
https://www.masstransitmag.com/bus/infrastructure/article/21...