Tesla buys German railway line, now hosting passenger trains
trains.com
trains.com
Emphasis mine.
I was worried but this seems quite irrelevant to the German passenger landscape. Phew!
eg LNER (an older much larger rail brand) often refuse to carry passengers with a Grand Central (a newer low cost operator) ticket when there is disruption because of internal disagreements between the two companies and different interpretation of the law/contract. This is confusing, annoying and often very expensive for passengers when they board an LNER train (as it’s the next one) and get told they have to buy new tickets
It reminds me of low cost airlines and look at the state of flying these days. Everyone is “low cost” but often without the low cost part. Ie it dragged the bar down so low
I think a thorough analysis of where it works and where it doesn't, and why, would be really interesting.
Resulting in the collapse of the public one or, at best, cutting costs and reducing commuter lines from smaller towns/villages.
I swear, I read the most smooth-brained commentary here.
The engineer is just observing the systems and acting in unforseen situations.
So it is not an either or question and should be stopped treated as such ( in certain circles). Germany has a quite good railroad system, but you really won't get far outside the cities, unless you live close to a train station (like I do intentionally) and have your target close to a train station. And buses to a remote village from the last train station? Check your calendar and not your watch for the next one.
Not many high mountains, but lots of high enough mountains and valleys, that you need lots of expensive bridges to pass. I happen to live right next to a big one, that was build 1850 and is now getting renovated. They are already working on it since 2 years and plan to be finished maybe next year. All this, for one already existing bridge.
There is no way you can cover even half the villages by train.
And before you declare incompetence, well first, you have to work with what you have and secondly, you have to work without stopping the existing trains too much as it is in use and alternative routes very long. (so they work mostly at night and don't care how many babies try to sleep)
Edit:
Also, do you expect that all lines get served all the time? Or do you declare that no one has any reason to go anywhere in the middle of the night? Cars are somewhat more flexible in that regard. Also, do you know what happens if one train breaks down? It cannot just be pulled to the side, like a car can. It will block the whole line. So even if you radicalize everything and use lots of autonomous small trains that can react flexible to passengers request(something that should be worked on today), it would not solve everything. Flexibility is very valuable. A train can only go where there are tracks. A car anywhere, where it is flat enough. Solve that, if you want to completely get rid of cars.
Thats why you combine them with buses for the remainder.
I have never owned a car, I used public transportation my whole life. Trains, buses, publicly-available bikes/scooters, whatever. Occasionally I rent a car. And I am fine, I have just learned to organize around the public transport. Instead of being free to leave or arrive "whenever I want", I know exactly the time (so I'm usually not 20 minutes late because I had a train, where car owners are easily stuck in traffic or left 20 minutes late).
Yes, many times it is longer. But I learned to use the time I spend in public transportation: I read, I listen to podcasts, I work. When a car owner loses 2h30 in traffic, I work for 4h in my train. They lost 2h30, I... well if I can count those 4h as work, I didn't lose anything. I find that even reading is a better use of my time than driving.
But all my life, car owners around me (friends/family) have had trouble understanding that I am fine with public transportation. "Wait, take my car, it will be much longer by train!" or "Do you want me (to drive 30min) to come pick you up so that you don't have to come by bus (which takes 45min)?".
Sometimes it's longer, sometimes it's more annoying, sometimes it's more expensive. Many times it's better, too. It's just different, I just learned the public transportation way. The fact, though, is that it's better for the planet.
For example one train line in a village close by down in a valley is currently not active for whatever reason. But there are buses as a replacement - except that they do not go down in that valley, so people wanting to use that bus, just have to walk 2 km steep uphill. Then it happens, that the last train was late, you miss the connection - and are just stranded somewhere and they don't give a shit, even though they told you before, the other train will wait.
What else? Well, trains that just don't come and no more information avaiable, except that they officially are on time. So you stand there and wonder if it just came too early and left before the timetablr (also happened to me).
Then of course there are villages where the train passes through and they have a train station, but the train never stops there. And if you live a bit away from the trains, then you are lucky if one bus is coming on the weekend.
So good luck convincing those people, that they don't need cars. Not with that state of public transport.
I also simply cannot imagine, how you can run regular bus lines in low populated areas in an economic way.
The best compromise I know are buses on demand, meaning you call one hour before and then they will come. But this also only works with subsidies.
Of course not every tiny village has a train station, and the ones that do tend to be very touristy, but you can cover a lot with a mix of trains and buses.
Sure and I never debated that and I like Switzerland. But as far as I know, they also have a lot of cars.
So both is needed, not either or. And yes please, wherever something from a car can be put on a train, it should be done. Every car less on the road, makes it more attractive for (e-) bikes and people walking.
Well I never meant "either or". But we should invest much more into public transportation and much less into cars (and planes). And for those who do need a car (because when you live in the countryside, you may need a car indeed), we need to transition to small electric vehicles (which Teslas are not).
I am also a big fan of very light electric vehicles that are a mix of bicycle and car. But not in combination with SUV tanks and aggressive drivers.
Train tracks work for...trains. One at a time, going at a time and in a direction someone somewhere else decided might be a good idea. It's a performance optimisation, where there is enough demand to make a highly parallel transportation method worth installing (or less painful than the more bottom-up alternative).
Right. I guess that's why the US need 5 lanes roads everywhere: for bikes and emergency services vehicles.
Was it? My opinion is that we should invest much more into public transportation and much less into individual cars. Those who really need an individual car should get a small electric vehicle, not a Tesla.
I made a comment countering the idea that roads are from some sort of carspiracy, when they are just exceptionally useful, general-purpose ways of getting people and goods around, and have been for over 2000 years.
You then straw-manned that into only 5-lane highways. I can't see a good reason for you doing that, so I am assuming you're forcing the conversation into an argument of your own making that you can then feel justified in venting in. I could be wrong, but it doesn't really matter. I just wanted to make my point and not steer the conversation into any personal catharsis.
Anyway, my point was that roads are useful, but you certainly don't need 5 lanes for emergency vehicles, just one. Still, the tendency everywhere is to add road not for emergency vehicles and bikes, but because there are more and more cars out there.
Instead we should invest in public transportation and push for fewer cars. Not everyone needs a big car, and therefore we would not need 5-lanes roads if most people were taking the train.
I am not saying that we should remove roads. But maybe we should stop adding more of them (or making them bigger or faster) and instead invest in trains.
But in general replacing roads with train tracks, is not something I think can work.
"So it is not an either or question"
Was my original point.
These trains run on diesel so if Telsa wants to be more serious they'll put hydrogen fuel cell or BEV trains into service:
https://insideevs.com/news/685080/tesla-giga-berlin-train-sh...
(I'm genuinely surprised the train isn't already electric; if I've been on a diesel here, I've not noticed).
Using batteries isn't a goal. It's something we do when there is no alternative.
You need more space above the train for the power line, which means all bridges and tunnels have to be adapted, thus rebuilt. You need space in the side to place the masts, which may mean acquiring land or some complex engineering in close (hilly?) areas.
This then often means that regulation treats it as a major change, thus the whole signaling system and other aspects have to be adapted to current standards.
And then you need all the side infrastructure like substations etc.
In the end it's almost as expensive as building a new line.
I suspect the person you are replying to finds it ironic because Tesla is largely competing with the rebirth of good public transports in the west. Musk hates them and regularly says so.
What we need is good public transports for most people, and EVs as small as possible for the rest. That's not what Musk (and Tesla) offer.
But not all train lines are electrified.
There are now Hydrogen-based trains in Northern Germany for such tracks.
https://www.dw.com/en/german-railway-firm-ushers-in-new-era-...
Precisely. Thanks :-).
> What we need is good public transports for most people, and EVs as small as possible for the rest. That's not what Musk (and Tesla) offer.
Spot on!
Tesla is by a huge margin largely competing with ICE cars.
Tesla is competing against that if we look at where we allocate our funds, our governments seem to prefer to subsidise big electric cars and new roads more than cycle lanes and railways...
"EVs aren't here to save the climate, they are here to save cars"
It's only ironic because Musk has been so openly hostile towards trains.
https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-awkward-dislike-mass-t...
“I think public transport is painful. It sucks. Why do you want to get on something with a lot of other people, that doesn’t leave where you want it to leave, doesn’t start where you want it to start, doesn’t end where you want it to end? And it doesn’t go all the time.”
“It’s a pain in the ass,” he continued. “That’s why everyone doesn’t like it. And there’s like a bunch of random strangers, one of who might be a serial killer, OK, great. And so that’s why people like individualized transport, that goes where you want, when you want.”
When the audience member responded that public transportation seemed to work in Japan, Musk shot back, “What, where they cram people in the subway? That doesn’t sound great.”
Well, to public transport. Presumably Tesla employee transport to the Tesla plant will definitely go where they want it to go!
I'd be curious what he thinks traffic in Tokyo would look like if even half of the commuters on the subway (~80k pph for each train) drove cars around the city instead. I suspect he'd then suggest that a network of new roads be built underground to alleviate this additional traffic, which may work but at that point you'd probably just be better of building some more capacity in the subway network ...
I think you'll find more killers in cars. Both intentional and unintentional ones.
[0] https://www.oxford.gov.uk/news/article/2146/oxford_rail_plan...
It's the link from Erkner to the factory.
How a Diesel-Electric Locomotive Works -- https://youtu.be/cIQ0yIZgQeE?si=vtvRg8RAXjkRB-za