Comment by tkgally | Hacker News Reader

Comment by tkgally | Hacker News Reader

The guidance on Japanese names is a bit simplistic. Yes, the Japanese government has announced a surname-first policy, but Japanese people are not bound by that policy. I have hundreds of name cards (meishi) that I have received from Japanese businesspeople, academics, and government officials over the years, and my rough estimate is that more than half who indicated their name in English on the card put their surname last.

For more nuanced guidelines, I recommend the Japan Style Sheet published by the Society of Writers, Editors, and Translators in Tokyo. It can be downloaded for free at [1]. An excerpt:

“Japanese write their names in their own language surname first, as do Chinese and Koreans. After contact with the West was reestablished in the mid-nineteenth century, many Japanese adopted the practice of giving their surname last in international contexts. Japanese learn in school to reverse their names when writing or speaking in English and their domestic English-language media follow this practice, as do almost all other media around the world. Especially in translations, either name order may be adopted. Writers and editors may also choose a hybrid approach.” (p. 37)

[1] https://japanstylesheet.com/download-jss/

> The guidance on Japanese names is a bit simplistic

The title of the page is a "basic guide". Not a "comprehensive guide".

And they note that "the person’s preference is the most important thing to consider", which already covers your "but I have name cards in a different format" objection.

> The title of the page is a "basic guide". Not a "comprehensive guide".

Straw man. Thep post could give more useful advice with a few extra words without being "comprehensive".

> And they note that "the person’s preference is the most important thing to consider", which already covers your "but I have name cards in a different format" objection.

The post suggests putting Japanese family names first, with a generic, obvious disclaimer at the top about personal preference taking priority. There a lot more to what tkgally (who is a professor emeritus at University of Tokyo and former professional translator, by the way) said about that than "I have name cards in a different format". For one, he estimated 50% of the business cards he received had the family name last. He also linked the guidance from the Japan Style Sheet which provides many additional points in favor of not assuming the family name goes first.

Japanese people sometimes use the French-like convention of capitalizing the family name (e.g., "Hayao MIYAZAKI", not that he actually does this) so you can tell which is which without knowing a priori what order the named person prefers to write their name in English.

This seems like a very clear approach, as long as it doesn't come across as shouting.

I don't think this is surprising. Many Chinese do so as well because they are educated that westerners put the first name first, so they follow the Western convention for English names.

Edit: cellphone keypad

Given names are only used in Japan in informal settings between people you know well, like friends and family. Work, school, and general life would use surname + honorific. The honorific is not optional.

So when it's written in a English, write it English style? That's actually very reasonable, as long as Japanese publications write western names in the Japanese order.

I think it's okay. Japanese names written in latin alphabet is just the trade name anyway, a transcription. "The real" name, subjectively, is always in Japanese.

Thank you for the pointer!

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