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Comment by judge2020 | Hacker News Reader

judge2020

> Finally, the new Tailscale client allows an Apple TV to be an exit node itself for other machines in your tailnet.

Pretty huge. Many non-techy users don't like the idea of keeping a computer on 24/7, but a smart TV is just fine.

Also, the Apple TV 4k only draws 0.5 watts at idle and less than 3 watts when streaming movies[0], so I imagine it pulls less than 1 just tunnelling traffic. Computers pull 15W+ at idle, and that's with low end components.

0: https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/products/appletv/Apple...

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So far I’ve used it to get vpn on apple tv and i dont think i am going to change, also considering how apple leaks vpns like there’s no tomorrow https://www.amazon.nl/GL-iNet-GL-MT300N-V2-Reiserouter-Repea...

Can second the recommendation for the Mango travel router. I always prefer to take the VPN out of the “hands” of the client device to avoid any leaks. With 2 such devices connected via Wireguard VPN any other device I connect to that client router’s WiFi is safely communicating through that VPN. A sort of site to site VPN that works for devices that could never otherwise use a VPN client.

But of course this is a different use case and not always an option. Not if you want to use Tailscale. Probably unless that Apple TV is already connected to one of this “VPN WiFi” with Tailscale on top (no idea what the functionality or performance impact is).

Don't know about the mango, but the gl.inet I have works with tailscale (albeit still in beta) https://www.gl-inet.com/products/gl-axt1800/

also seems to work with 'tailscale up --advertise-exit-node' if you ssh into the router instead of using admin console.

Ordered one - I will be traveling and would be nice to switch exit nodes as needed while on the go. Not that I need to hide the fact I’m out of country, but seems like a good way to connect up the work laptop to appear on my home IP.

Anyone using glinet routers for that purposes and have any tips?

I don’t use it for work but on every trip I am actually connecting “at home”. I have a WG server at home (you can use one glinet as an easy to configure VPN server) and a travel glinet as the client. Whenever I reach a hotel I connect the client glinet to the hotel hotspot (or cable), it connects to the home VPN, and all my devices connect to this client glinet WiFi and through that VPN tunnel. Everything is seamless with the only manual step being to connect the travel router to whatever internet pipe provided.

The Mango I have is on the slow side, specs say max 45Mbps over WG as a client, and I measured ~25Mbps when using a Mango as the server. But it’s tiny and very low power so perfect for travel.

Yes. I've traveled abroad and connected my work laptop to our home server through the glinet so I wouldn't need to deal with any hassle of having a foreign IP address even though I disclosed my location to my employer. In fact I keep my work gear always connected to the glinet, even at home.

No tips, it just works, but test it out before you leave for your trip!

US Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/GL-iNET-GL-MT300N-V2-Repeater-300Mbps...

I had not convinced the use case of using this as an exit node. Fuck this simplified so much.

Tailscale also runs on Android TV. If you don't have an Apple TV and want a cheap device just to have an exit node, you can buy a $20 Android TV thingy.

Beware that a lot of cheap Android TV boxes come pre-loaded with heaps of malware. You don't want them in your network.

Linus Tech Tips has a video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vpepaQ-VQQ&themeRefresh=1

That's true. However, Walmart's $20 Onn 4k Streaming Box has no malware, apparently.

It … kind of does, but if you filter the reviews by "TV" you'll see there's quite a few issues with it: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tailscale..... Not sure why the back button issue hasn't been fixed, that makes it very inconvenient to set up. (Also: are you sure it can be used as an exit node? That wasn't supported a few months ago.)

I abandoned the Google TV thingy because it was great when it was new a year or so ago, but now after all the updates it frequently stutters when playing media from Netflix, Disney+, HBO Max, etc. Apple TV is silky smooth and works perfectly.

At $200, it was 4x the price, though.

The expensive Nvidia Shield Pro is dogshit as well for streaming performance at $150-200. Ridiculous.

Works great for me?

You're the first one I've read that has had issues with streaming performance on the Nvidia Shield. I have the non-Pro nvidia shield and its been rock solid for streaming external content and local content. Including 4k. I even ran it as a plex server for a while. Are you using wireless or plugged into ethernet?

It’s most likely just because of new codecs. If you got a newer cheap device it would probably not stutter (until the next round of codecs, but Apple TV requires the same upgrades)

I don't think so, x264 and x265 haven't changed in the past 12 months, or even the last 2+ years. My suspicion is Elgoog releases Android system updates without thoroughly testing them on existing released hardware.

My friends have Apple TVs that don't stutter, for 3+ years.

If it were my machine I’d also investigate the audio streams. Audio decoding can be surprisingly heavy

Why, apparently it finally does - since when? Last time I checked, I'd have to sideload it on my Nvidia shield?

How will this work?

My Apple TV constantly goes to sleep.

Is Tailscale doing some type of “busy wait” to prevent tvOS from going to sleep?

You can change your Apple TV settings to not to go to sleep.

This is not really necessary, there is no need to change any settings. Even when the device enters sleep mode, VPN apps can remain active, just like on iOS.

It’s not truly asleep. The display parts are but it’s always connected to wifi to act as a home hub, receive airplay requests, etc.

Neat, maybe I can sell my M1 mini server

Nah, you'll still need that to synchronize iCloud content locally so that you can make backups of it, as Apple stubbornly refuses to allow TimeMachine (or anything else) to actually backup stuff that is only stored in iCloud, and provies no easy, scriptable way, of doing so otherwise.

It may just be a problem for me, but as i have ~3TB of photos in iCloud (2 x 2TB), and unless i want to buy laptops with 2TB storage, there is no practical way of backing up the contents of iCloud, so i use a Mac Mini M1 with an external drive, syncrhonize data locally, and then back it up from there.

I need to backup my iCloud data soon too. How sure are you that the data is all downloaded from the cloud when you copy it to the external drive?

Do you use any special tools?

I just configure each users account on the Mac Mini to download everything from iCloud, and then backup each users directory.

It does require each user to login again every time the mac mini is rebooted, but fortunately that only happens when new releases come around, so 3-4 times every year.

I do periodically check if new photos have been downloaded. I care less about documents as the relevant documents are more likely to also be stored on the laptops, and thus backed up through the normal backup routine on the laptops.

I do wish Apple would come up with a solution to this problem though. The official instructions[1] feels like something from 2003.

[1]: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204055

> I do wish Apple would come up with a solution to this problem though.

That wish is in the opposite direction of Apple’s brand identity: “let us handle everything for you with our white glove service [you can pay, right?]”

I would argue that it is exactly in line with Apple's brand identity.

Pretty much everybody agrees that you need to backup your cloud storage as well as your local computer, and Apple even backs up your i-devices to the cloud, and yet, there is no automated way of backing up your iCloud storage.

About a decade ago, Google initiated the Data Transfer Framework[1] that allows you to transfer data from one cloud provider to another, directly from provider to provider instead of downloading it first. It sadly appears to not have gotten enough traction to be of any use.

[1]: https://github.com/google/data-transfer-project

> Pretty much everybody agrees that you need to backup your cloud storage as well as your local computer, and Apple even backs up your i-devices to the cloud

I don’t think I’ve ever seen Apple say that you need to back up your Apple Cloud data.

> I would argue that it is exactly in line with Apple's brand identity.

I’m not following you. Can you explain what you mean by that?

> I’m not following you. Can you explain what you mean by that?

Usually when Apple does something, they make it so it "just works" and usually stays out of the way of the user. To bake iCloud backups into Time Machine would do just that, backup your cloud data without bugging you.

If it’s iCloud Photos you can try icloudpd, works pretty well from my Synology NAS

Couldn't you expert icloud to Google photos and then use something like Google takeout to back that up?

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208514

> Many non-techy users

Why would a non-techy user want to volunteer to be an exit node?

This isn't Tor, being an exit node just means the non-techy user can access Netflix while travelling internationally.

Blame Tor for popularising the term "exit node" to mean "public proxy".

The terms "VPN gateway" or "VPN server" are still valid and less easily confused with Tor's use of "exit node".

Yes and no... A VPN Gateway or VPN server doesn't have to be an exit node, and may route onwards to actual exit nodes. Some nodes may not "exit" at all - see setups where you are just trying to reach your private networks.

In a tailscale setup, an "exit node" has specific meaning and the term makes sense as far as I'm concerned:

https://tailscale.com/kb/1103/exit-nodes/

It’s not a public Tor exit node. It’s a personal node you can use to route your own traffic.

I have setup Pis in family member homes to allow me to get residential IP VPN exit node in their respective countries - cheap and easy way to get access to foreign TV streaming services without a monthly fee. I used to run my own exit nodes in AWS/DigitalOcean in those regions, but virtually all streaming services block VPS/cloud service IPs at this point. Having an exit node in an actual "real" residential internet service is vastly more flexible.

This potentially would be even easier for me, given they all have Apple TVs already. This isn't a public exit node - it's only available to other users (i.e. people you know and have granted access to) of your own TailScale setup.

Same for non-techy folks who have second homes in foreign countries, or even just travel a lot - an Apple TV running this new app back in their main property will allow them for free to browse the web as if they are actually at their main property, including any TV services they enjoy.

So that when they're overseas, they can route their internet traffic through their Apple TV at home in the US, and any streaming service they use will think they're in the US and not give them trouble about "Hulu isn't available in your location".

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