Hyprland Is a Toxic Community
drewdevault.com
drewdevault.com
speaking of toxic, why the stereotyping? It's not all locker-stuffing and hazing everywhere across the world; I had a blast in high school athletics with friends, and we didn't go out of our way to ruin anyone's day.
When I imagine that I am taken back by memories of camaraderie, pride, friendship, and group motivation towards a goal -- I'm quite sure that wasn't the imagery you wanted to project.
We partook in community service, worked at homeless shelters, the whole gambit. I've probably never been so virtuous as those days.
Not every locker room is filled with hateful machismo, and not every jock is a cruel bully -- don't paint with such wide strokes and expect to keep the details.
now, that said , i'm sorry that you received such treatment, and I hope that you find a friendlier place to direct time and effort; thankfully the DE/WM community is vast enough to find a place that is worth being.
For a lot of us, "a high school boy's locker room" is just a cliché from US films. We had no equivalent to this in my country; we were expected to shower and get dressed at home and had nothing even remotely similar at school.
It is a cliché. One presented by the US to the world so many times that it has come clear way to express a stereotype.
I sure hope that real-life locker rooms are unlike what you portray in arts and films, but as a foreigner, it's the references we've got.
Sorry, but who said they want to? Oh that's right, nobody.
1: let me mention here that I come from an ethnic minority in my country and for reasons completely unrelated to this discussion am not welcome in many corners of the internet.
There are people whose reply to that statement would be "Help! I'm being oppressed!" . The sort of people who say being race-neutral is white supremacy.
There's a lot of bored people who just want to feel like social activists because they've been taught it's noble (no matter how cringe it is to normal people). And there's no lower-effort way of doing this than causing drama in tech communities where no one cares about your race or gender. It's a perfect place to turn into a battleground, and then if they reject you, you run to social media to virtue signal about toxicity.
Sure, but pronouns? If someone refers to you using the wrong pronoun (e.g., assuming you're male, which this Vaxry person apparently admits to doing), don't you want to point it out somehow?
I find it interesting that the "anti-Woke" also end up appealing to same values of tolerance that the "Woke" appeal to. Perhaps it points to the lack of diversity in Western thinking.
But it seems a lot of people don’t have the skill of channeling their disagreements into respectful reasoned language.
Vs. responding to their disagreements with whatever vitriol makes them feel good, but doesn’t express anything coherent.
Also, if a forum is about X, there is some value in not engaging in habitual conflict on non-trivial side issues.
A free for all zone is fine, but then give the forum a name that reflects that.
Nowhere did I say “my” view of being constructive.
Very few people have no sense of when they themselves are being (or have been) more constructive or less.
It’s easy to say nothing can be done. Perfect agreement on good manners is unattainable.
But even a little improvement, goes a long ways.
I think hyperland is big within ricing community, where people try to setup their own computing environment. It's a fun creative outlet, I used to do it a lot in high school. It taught me so much about linux which later on helped me professionally, so it's sad to see that the community isn't more inclusive.
Well, Drew's article gives a concrete example of a victim. But beyond this specific article, it is not difficult to find examples of people who were harassed when trying to be involved in an open source community. This is pretty much the reason why so many open source projects are adopting codes of conduct.
This is why my projects have one.
These attitudes can be seen not only in political topics (such as the one described in the article), but also other stuff in general.
For example, sway once forced users who are using Nvidia gpus to type --my-next-gpu-wont-be-nvidia so that the compositor works properly. It's nothing explicitly offensive, but you can see how their attitudes against "unapproved" outgroups oozes out here.
I don’t blame the maintainers of a compositor of struggling with Nvidia holding back a proper API? My Intel built in GPU works fine with sway.
I can see how that can be perceived as abrasive, I think Drew tends to polarize opinions from time to time. But this isn’t about purposefully misgendering a person and various other acts of harassment.
Nvidia 4 Lyfe!!1!
Do you game on Wayland? Steam, Lutris?
There are many examples of companies and countries that have improved their competitiveness and efficiency by adopting open source strategies. The creation of skills through all levels is of fundamental importance to both companies and countries.
Deciding on a CoC is such a low effort issue, just get it over with!
They don't want to, it's got nothing to do with "effort".
I kinda agree with the maintainers here, if it’s an issue, fork it, add your own CoC and manage your own community as you see fit. That’s valid too.
There’s nothing wrong with suggesting to adopt a CoC, but ultimately the maintainers get to decide.
"Oh, I think Skipper saw that problem earlier. Hey @Skipper can you help him out?"
And if they don't go by "him," they may want to correct you, because not everyone on the internet is a man.
> And so, one of the moderators changed the pronouns in their nickname to “who/cares”
This is very a specific and active involvement of a moderator in the act. Such interventions are a gross misuse of moderator privileges in any community.
> Let’s be real, this isn’t like, calling someone the N-word or something.
That's a low effort attempt at downplaying and justifying an act in bad faith. If you go back long enough, you would find similar roots for the N-word (quoting wikipedia: "It was initially seen as a relatively neutral term"). It became so obnoxious because of the involvement of hateful people with the word. The same will eventually happen here.
> Who said that all communities should be “non toxic” and inclusive?
To this, the following quote is relevant:
> Later he describes a more moderated community (the /r/unixporn discord server) as having an environment in which everyone is going to “lick your butthole just to be nice”.
They aren't just tolerating bad behavior in their own community. They take a vocal stance of hatred towards other communities that don't.
> but it’s their own community.
So are the proud boys and neonazis. They all start like this by tolerating hate and brushing aside criticism in the name of joke. I don't know where you'd draw a line.
For now though, I think Drew is justified in calling this out. I do use software from people whose political views I cannot agree with. But they all keep their politics and their communities separate. This is not like that. This is one community I want to stay away from. Using their software keeps the possibility of that encounter open. This blog is useful for people like me.
Oh, they can't express themselves?
They can't express their sentiment of gender abolition because mental illness makes some people care a fuckton about gender?
What cool logic
Misusing moderator privileges to modify someone else's profile to mock their gender identity isn't exactly what normal people call 'expressing themselves'.
> because mental illness makes some people care a fuckton about gender?
It's genuinely amusing to see a bunch of people in this era hold neolithic-age ideas about what mental illness is. If you haven't noticed, the concept of mental health and gender identity has changed a lot in the past century.
You can use mee6 to set that up and enjoy your toxic and non-inclusive community.
The absence of any such login window implies that a basic social contract is followed, which this community is clearly in violation of.
> My advice to the leadership begins with taking a serious look in the mirror.
What does this guy talks about? He bans people on Mastodon after 2 messages. He clearly values his ego more than anyone else.
It's not the same. A blog post is a great way of raising awareness of issues.
But in all seriousness, Drew should spend time creating and living in communities with standards he likes, and stay out of those he doesn't. Nobody is being doxxed here, nobody is being harassed outside the community, from what I can tell nothing serious has occurred here except that the discourse in this community is not to Drew's liking
who/cares
Nor are their respective communities just because there may be overlap in members.
Hyprland isn't even the main, let alone only compositor using wlroots. I think you're going for dramatic effect that really doesn't land.
Some languages are weird and do not use genders at all. People coming from those languages have a hard time dealing with gendered languages such as English.
Some people do not know what misgendering is, or even what a trans person is, or their culture might not deal with that in the same way your cultures does. Probably they have a different term for it or it is taboo for them to talk about it.
Deaf people are about the same percentage of the population as people who identify as trans. Have you learned sign language? when you approach people, do you consider they may not be able to hear you? Why is this?
There are many groups that also amount to 0.6 to 5% of the population yet are more understanding that the rest of the population may not be prepared to address their needs. Not because of malice or hate but because they simply do not know or they come from a different culture.
Hate and intolerance could be one reason, but there are others. Ignorance, immaturity, prejudice and steoreotyping, etc.
And the way to deal with that is through compassion. A good start is to feel sorry for them.
Those are all signs of a toxic community, which is what this article is about
That mod is likely an ill-intentioned guy and in violation of the Discord ToS, but starting every conversation by accusing others of being ill-intentioned is how we end achieving nothing as a society.
Punishment and an escalation of intolerance are not the goal, tolerance is. We are not going to heal the world one accusation or insult at a time.
When you are not a prejudiced person, a good starting point is to consider yourself fortunate in that respect, and then acknowledging others might not have been as fortunate as you.
Or rather there's no other point other than "please stop being mean", while good, it doesn't merit more than a virtue, in contrast to 4chan style people, they will make make terrible arguments/justifications for being edgy.
The only way to succeed in stamping out toxicity is to have as many strong points about why it shouldn't be tolerated.
I'm being very hyperbolic, he's a perfectly decent guy, but he is very opinionated and can be pretty harsh with people he disagrees with or that do things he doesn't like. Some would call him toxic, I wouldn't, but I think this word "toxic" is thrown around too much. I've been called toxic for farting. I'm gonna come out and say it: it's just boys being boys. You can chastise me for that position, but people are going to be themselves in the world, we don't need to correct every indecent viewpoint or act of expression that happens anywhere anytime, and we can't. Hyprland is good software, and this comes from a Sway user who has no interest in using Hyprland at all. If some guys in a chatroom want to make dongle jokes or whatever I think you've got to be looking for reasons to be mad to make a big deal out of it.