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Comment by bookofjoe | Hacker News Reader

Interesting to me how quickly casinos ponied up ransom money compared to refusal by hospitals etc.

Casinos — more than anyone — understand the cost for disrupting their revenue streams. There is also the possibility of damaging future revenue streams if they take much of a reputational hit. They have all probably anticipated such an event and are prepared to negotiate and act quickly.

Then how do you explain MGM not negotiating and acting quickly?

Nobody wants to assume they cannot get out of the mess. At some point, someone has to make the tough call to sign a check to make the problem disappear.

As far as reputation goes it looks like Caesars paid the $10m ransom after having the loyalty member db exposed with drivers licenses and social security numbers. They also have no real guarantee the data stolen will be deleted.

Still might be better for them being a "quiet" incident as opposed to disrupting operations like mgm.

I think more than that, they wouldn't want to embarrass their whales by having data leak on them like the amount that they lose every year.

Yeah, rather than take a reputational hit, they've now got a reputation for paying ransoms to hackers. They will now be targeted by more hackers wanting ransoms.

My understanding is that a small minority of a casino's users are responsible for the bulk of their revenue and if you take a small leap of faith and assume that many or most of that subset of users are gambling addicts, you can see how a casino might be heavily incentivized to need to be operational again quickly before their addicts seek a new source of gambling.

Bulk of their revenue comes from non-gambling. 69.8% of casinos revenue is non-gambling. [1] For gambling revenue, slots are responsible for 67%. [2] I doubt that it is a small minority that is gambling away at thousands and thousands of the slot machines.

[1] https://igamingbusiness.com/casino/more-bullishness-for-las-...

[2]https://www.forbes.com/sites/willyakowicz/2023/02/01/nevada-...

You would be surprised. Most casual gamblers will put <$1k on a weekend visit.

Even setting aside the high roller slots, the regular machines will allow $25/spin now and 5 seconds a spin means it’s easy to cruise through $1k in 5 minutes.

I’ve sat and watched one person so that (not in the high roller slots) and they left down about $4000 after a 20 minute sit. They didn’t even seem phased in the slightest and only left due to what seemed like the need to meet someone rather than running out of cash.

First, a trip to Vegas for most of Americans will cost much more than a $1K per weekend. Second, my link said exactly this - most of the revenue comes from slots. People using them are by definition is not a small minority. Minority gambles away hundreds of thousands per trip.

> First, a trip to Vegas for most of Americans will cost much more than a $1K per weekend

I’m talking about gambling amount. You’re intuition is way off here. Most Americans will not gamble that much.

I think there is a misunderstanding here. My point is that gambling is less important part of casino's revenue. Hence few whales don't make or break Vegas.

I.e even if we take the top of your guess (<$1000), it is still much less than other expenses (lodging, dining, entertainment, etc).

I’m replying to your claim about doubting a small minority gamble thousands at slot machines. Your intuition is wrong and whales dominate gambling revenue, even in slot machines.

Whales are important, but I expect most Vegas casinos rely on income from the masses. Otherwise they wouldn't be as big as they are.

Casinos are a luxury vice where participation is optional. Hospitals are a necessity of society who know that they will be supported by the government if required. I also believe it is technically illegal to pay the ransom, and given the tight connection between hospitals and government, may have more red-tape to sign off on such an action.

Hospitals can also shame the criminal organization better. Shutting down hospitals gets more eyes on you, and as criminals, you don't want that. I'm sure MGM is a major political donor, but most people don't have much sympathy for them in this case, either.

Same as when the hackers shut down pipelines then immediately apologized and backed down saying it was never their intention to cause a international incident

https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/10/22428996/colonial-pipelin...

> Interesting to me how quickly casinos ponied up ransom money compared to refusal by hospitals etc.

"easy come, easy go"

That’s because the mafia behind the casinos is already assembling hit teams to go make an example of these hackers.

What are you basing this on other than Hollywood movies? Was an example made of the Caesars Palace hackers?

You realize those movies were inspired by something actually happening right? Like criminal enterprises are intertwined with legal businesses all the time. Whether it’s embezzlement/kickback schemes, espionage, or extortion there are independent agents or cut out organizations which undertake these illicit, clandestine activities. The casinos have been tied to mafia activity for many many years.

Casino, by Nicholas Pileggi is the inside story of the Mafia and the casinos. It is what inspired the Hollywood movies.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/387627.Casino is

[Published 20 years ago]

Yes, I'm aware of casinos ties to organized crime. However, they're a lot more above ground these days and the money that was extorted wasn't illegally gained. If you go to a casino on the strip tonight and cheat or steal chips you'll be arrested face felony charges. You won't be taken to an alley and shot or even worked over like you might have 50 years ago. It makes no sense for them to commit serious violent crimes when they can ruin you through 100% legal avenues.

The idea that they're paying because a hit squad is about to drop in, murder them all and get the money back is pure fantasy. If modern casinos figure out who did this they'll forward it to law enforcement. In all likelihood they have no idea, though.

If there's any evidence that these casinos still commit murder like that I'm all ears.

Sure, 30 years ago, but to me it is very unclear how active or influential the mafia is in the 2020's and I'm not seeing any evidence provided here.

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