Mark Cuban loses $870K in hot wallet hack
cointelegraph.com
cointelegraph.com
- "Not your keys, not your coins" very frequently turns into "your keys, some scammers coins". Or "your keys, not your coins and no ones coins" when you lose access to a wallet by losing the private key, seed phrase, etc. Look around forums, subreddits, twitter, etc... These people expend tremendous amounts of time and energy just trying not to lose everything forever.
- Your other option is hosting them with custodians that have frequently proven to be anywhere from incompetent/reckless to outright criminals.
Time and time again individuals who are significantly more technical and astute than the general population STILL fall victims to both of these scenarios and many, many more.
Almost 15 years after the launch of bitcoin and at least tens of billions of dollars invested in development in the space there is still nowhere on the horizon any of this is ready for anything approaching mass adoption.
Other than the basic human trait of greed and gambling, get rich quick schemes, criminal and nefarious purposes, etc I have no idea how any of this is still a "thing".
You hit the nail on the head. Nobody can directly buy water, milk, fuel, transportation, or anything necessary with bitcoin. Its only legitimate use is an exotic and volatile investment vehicle for millionaires to play with.
Perhaps not quite "water, milk, fuel, transportation, or anything necessary" but certainly far from "an exotic and volatile investment vehicle for millionaires to play with".
And yes, I'm talking about using it on the grocery store.
Does that mean stablecoins should be discontinued because it's not mass adopted at all? even if it's useful for a minority? I disagree
Don’t they?
Fun fact: Technically, you could buy $50 dollars of groceries with an American Gold Eagle. You'd definitely confuse the cashier though.
I think you asked and answered your own question. It's still "a thing" because people still speculate on it. In particular, people gamble on it being more of "a thing" in the future.
It is simple to store and secure your cryptocurrency in a cold wallet.
1) Buy a Ledger* for $80
2) Make new 24 word passphrase and memorize it.
3) Copy your deposit address.
4) Reset the Ledger.
Hot wallets are harder and should never be more that 1-10% of your holdings. Most are safe using a combination of lit exchanges, like Coinbase and a phone wallet for their spending money.
You are GREATLY exaggerating the compelxity.
* https://shop.ledger.com/products/ledger-nano-s-plus/ruby-red
Ledger fails, gets lost, etc? Sorry, all gone. With the financial system outside of crypto I could lose everything I own in a house fire, get a government ID back, and walk into a bank and walk out with a debit card in minutes. Same thing applies if I get brain damage (`rm -rf /`) and forget how to do anything, or you know, simple stuff like dying unexpectedly and handling this in very straightforward means within the existing legal and financial system.
People make mistakes and these things (and more) happen in the real world. I swear this entire space is made of up aliens because they don't understand anything about humans or the real world.
These kinds of counter-arguments from those in the space only further prove my point.
How easy! Just have an Eidetic memory,
It’s hard to know what approach to pick, or even which source to trust, especially when you’re starting.
And it’s extra hard to continuously manage and improve your security; even moving coins to cold storage.
Single-shot memorizing 24 words is utterly out of the question for almost everybody.
Still, the challenge is to live with that long term.
E.g. to not write it down. Or to write it down in a sufficiently cryptic way. But not too cryptic because you still need to remember it. Also you shouldn’t reuse this system. And every now and then you should check that it continues to work as you expect. And…
For the unlikely case that you're not trolling: Don't do this. You're gonna end up on the list of people that had their very clever brainwallets drained sooner or later.
Let alone that a BIP39-compliant wallet wouldn't even accept words not on the canonical word list.
Well, just to reiterate – if you need to hold crypto, and if you're doing self-custody for it (no recommendation for either), don't come up with your own recovery phrase. Use a reputable wallet (again, I won't recommend one here) and make sure you have a backup plan that works, ideally offline and in multiple locations. And to reiterate: Even doing that, people lose their funds all the time. Opsec is hard, doubly so when literal money is at stake.
The human mind is quite bad at true randomness, but very good at coming up with puzzles that it perceives to be unsolvable (but that others can crack trivially).
What are you rain man?
And I prefer vi, or now vim tiny.
You might lose your cryptocurrency wallet with $50 in it, but you could just as well lose your traditional wallet with $50 cash in it.
The biggest impediment to adoption is actually regulatory. Vendors would love to accept a payment method with the transaction fees of Bitcoin Cash instead of the transaction fees of Visa and MasterCard. But not if it's ten thousand times more tax paperwork. Which competing payment methods might have had something to do with.
Vendors love to accept what their customers pay them with.
Bitcoiners, etc still regularly post Twitter and forum posts when they find some random mom and pop store somewhere that actually takes BTC. Literally on the frontpage of the reddit bitcoin sub right now:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/16k82kk/bitcoin_ac...
YES! So much adoption it's still a novelty worth putting on the internet!
If customers were asking to pay with BTC they would figure out a way to take it. Except customers don't so they don't because other than a tiny number of crypto zealots this space isn't anything other than something you gamble with.
If you sell cryptocurrency for more than you paid for it you have a capital gain. Okay, sure, if you made a million dollars then you owe taxes on a million dollars. But things like this commonly have exemptions for small transactions. If you pay for a $2 cup of coffee and had a capital gain of $0.03 for which you might owe less than one half of one cent in tax, it's obviously inefficient to require reporting for this. And it tends to even out because nobody is going to report a $0.03 capital loss either. So it makes sense to exempt transactions below some threshold. But for this they apparently don't. Which is hard to explain outside of malice.
And then people say "well nobody wants to use it."
I have mixed feelings about the IRS too but people need to remember they are chartered to enforce the law as it is defined. The SEC and IRS has interpreted (IMO correctly) that according to current law and regulations crypto transactions are a taxable event as you describe. What you're not understanding is that many people actually appreciate this handling of crypto because of the benefit under current capital gains regulations (long-term capital gains). Another fundamental conflict in what crypto is and isn't, what the crypto community wants it to be, etc.
It's yet another one of those "crypto people don't understand the world as it is". They are trying to bend the world to them and not the other way around. It's not working and it never will. You're never going to have what is essentially product market fit if you live in an alternate universe like the crypto community.
> So it makes sense to exempt transactions below some threshold. But for this they apparently don't. Which is hard to explain outside of malice.
Contrary to popular belief in the crypto community there isn't some cabal scheming to "keep crypto down" or any such nonsense as we can see now by the traditional investment community trying to offer bitcoin ETFs, etc. It's an asset and even though the cryto community falls back to "it's about the tech", "save the world", etc in a bear market we all know they're actually all about gambling in fiat. Wait for a bull market for "have fun staying poor" and endless posts about the value in fiat to come back in full force. If anything it's just another thing to provide tax revenue to the US Treasury. They don't care what you're trading as long as you follow the tax code.
With the scheme you have described there are obvious avoision loopholes, such as people avoiding taxable events altogether by just executing all of their trades in amounts under the threshold. Then what do you do, come up with some complicated scheme to define it under total transaction amount in a year for a given entity? This will then be abused because there are all kinds of things you can do to game that. If such a legal framework were implemented I guarantee the next product from exchanges would be schemes to avoid taxation to automatically execute trades to fit your loophole.
The other issue is knock-on effects - this regulation would have to apply evenly across other asset classes as any language to specifically exempt crypto would also be nebulous and very gameable. Why should crypto have a fundamental tax advantage over other asset classes? The tax code is already a byzantine mess and this would only add to that.
> And then people say "well nobody wants to use it."
It's clear people don't want to use it, they want to gamble. There are and have been "pro-crypto" politicians but the number of voters who support this are the tiny handful of crypto zealots that don't remotely move the needle in an election. Crypto doesn't get votes because the vast majority of people see it for what it is - a toy to gamble with and once again the actual adoption numbers, demand, etc reflects that.
The issue is that they're classifying it as an investment instead of a currency but the rules for investments make in impractical to use as a currency.
Conceivably this could be better suited to new legislation, but it's not obvious that they couldn't have done something more sensible, such as treating large holdings as investments and small holdings as currency.
> we can see now by the traditional investment community trying to offer bitcoin ETFs, etc.
Banks will do whatever makes them money. Offering ETFs of any kind where they get a vig makes them money. Replacing existing payment networks where they currently get $0.30 + 2.9% with new ones where the transaction fees are lower and go to someone else costs them money.
> With the scheme you have described there are obvious avoision loopholes, such as people avoiding taxable events altogether by just executing all of their trades in amounts under the threshold.
This is not a new problem. There is a $200 personal exemption for foreign currency. If you have a million dollars worth of Euros and the Euro is up against the dollar and you execute 5025 separate trades of Euros for US dollars in the amount of $199 each, what do you imagine happens?
> The other issue is knock-on effects - this regulation would have to apply evenly across other asset classes as any language to specifically exempt crypto would also be nebulous and very gameable.
It would be great to be able to use fractional shares of market ETFs as a global digital currency too.
> It's clear people don't want to use it, they want to gamble.
The gamblers want to gamble. I'm still not clear on why a global digital payments system with lower transaction fees than credit cards should have no market in a non-adversarial regulatory environment. That seems like something people would want.
You're implying that people would only "invest" trivial amounts into cryptocurrency that they can afford to lose – and I unfortunately doubt that.
I don't doubt that there are some crypto users that really use it as a payment method (and then yes, who would hold more than $50 in USDC or whatever in their wallet when their bank account pays 4-5% interest right now!).
But the vast majority of people seem to be using it in a way that at least expects some incidental windfall by the price going up, if not outright as a poorly-understood investment vehicle.
But nobody is forcing anybody to do that. And if you don't, you could still use it as a currency without having to worry about what happens to risk tolerant speculators/idiots.
Crypto, perfect, as long as you don't have too much money.
"Be a small target and hope for the best" is about the weakest form of security and does not instill a lot of comfort or confidence.
Rugpulls and ponzi schemes
Crypto really feels like a speed run of human monetary history.
Which money are you talking about? Most monies are driven substantially by monetary policy and other direct government intervention. The very reason fiat is no longer finite is due to government intervention in the 1930s (going off the gold standard).
Bitcoin (e.g.) is actually much more like gold in that the amount of it in circulation isn't determined by any law, policy or intervention.
This is even more true if one considers that after we defaulted on our obligations under Bretton Woods, we almost immediately transitioned to the petro dollar, making the USD the only way to obtain the most in-demand commodity in existence. So it still kind of had a backing. We've only really started to become 'free floating' extremely recently as more major oil producers turn against the petrodollar. And it doesn't seem to be leading to happy places.
...Except for all the other major fiat currencies that are not USD.
If you look at countries by debt to GDP, the US is peers with economies like Laos, Sudan, Italy, Venezuela, and so on. [1] The unique position of the dollar alongside being the largest consumer economy gives the government immense room to absorb economic blunders. At least until the house of cards collapses, which will make 1929 look like the good ole days. This is one of the many reasons people are interested in currencies that cannot be manipulated outside of normal market forces.
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_governmen...
How so? Bitcoin is a set of political/economic ideas about money encoded into software by a group of humans, who are historically known to sometimes change their minds over time.
Every fork happens in order to effect some change – and whether that change is beneficial or not is the matter of policy, not technology.
Voting against a fork (with your mining power or wallet) is also a policy decision. You can't escape human nature in a system built and used by humans, not even in a very conservative/change-averse one, because conservatism is, once again, a human value, not a technological one.
Through backwards-compatible soft forks.
Nobody removed the ability to make non-segwit transactions. SegWit did not change the existing transaction format or change the chain, it repurposed the "anyone-can-spend" transaction space.
Unlike with a lot of other cryptocurrencies, the Bitcoin dev team bends over backwards to try to make sure their protocol updates extend the existing protocol rather than changing it.
And most critically neither issuance nor balances have been changed, with the exception of the isolated value overflow error that was corrected during Bitcoin's infancy in 2010.
> Every fork happens in order to effect some change – and whether that change is beneficial or not is the matter of policy, not technology.
It's a matter of individual opinion. And with Bitcoin, every individual user can assert their own opinion by running the protocol version that aligns most with their own opinion. You can't opt out of your bank's software update.
> Voting against a fork (with your mining power or wallet) is also a policy decision. You can't escape human nature in a system built and used by humans, not even in a very conservative/change-averse one, because conservatism is, once again, a human value, not a technological one.
I can't argue with that. Being a bitcoin user is inherently a policy decision.
Everyone makes a policy decision by clicking the "download" button. It's part of Bitcoin's strength and it's part of Bitcoin's weakness.
It's quite interesting in an economic sense too because, unlike our USD2 analogy, in the Bitcoin world users actually keep all their money in both forks (so if you have $1000 in USD, you'd also have $1000 in USD2) yet disproportionately favor one currency to the point that e.g. Bitcoin Cash is worth $217 per coin, while BTC mainline is worth $26,000 per coin.
The forks were the result of a split in the community. Not every change actually results in a fork.
If someone alters the amount of bitcoins out there, my wallet software won't recognize those bitcoins as legitimate.
What it is, as a project, is being extremely conservative, but that's a human political value, not a property of a technical system.
> (instead of the awful SWIFT)
SWIFT is a real-time messaging network.
International transactions being slow has almost nothing to do with legacy technologies – it's partially outdated processes (batch processing facilitates netting, and netting preserves liquidity!), but overwhelmingly that we (or at least the regulators making the rules) want them to be slow enough to be able to intervene in case of financial crimes.
Therefore the point of faster settlement and less burocracy doesn’t stand unless you are selling weapons, which proves that Bitcoin is only useful for criminal schemes.
> my phrases on paper and USB locked in safes separated by 2000 miles
That's nice (unless you lose access to both or make some other operational mistake), but literally the opposite of central crypto custody, which is what this thread is about.
> Banks are here to stay, even in crypto imo
Maybe that takes smarts, but not a kind I value.
Mark Cuban loses $870k to a crypto scam: ‘They must have been watching’ https://www.dlnews.com/articles/people-culture/mark-cuban-lo...
Generate your own wallet and keep it completely offline.