Nearly 1 in 4 Israelis will be ultra-Orthodox by 2050, study says
timesofisrael.com
timesofisrael.com
When I look at my own country it seems that people are less and less following their parents' religious choices. Most Catholics in Holland of my generation are only so in name. That say they are to please the parents, but they don't do anything church related.
The same happens to more strict religions like Calvinism. My generation generally doesn't care about it, only their parents do. I guess even at a young age kids find information these days and start making their own choices. Having a religion that forbids loads of fun stuff isn't really attractive when you see other people living their life without all those rules.
My parents tried to make me Catholic but I already rejected it when I was very young. I was baptized but I refused to do any more like communion or Sunday school. It just made so little sense to me (and science made so much sense instead)
I wonder if the same will happen there.
That isn’t to say that attrition doesn’t happen. It does. But this group has resisted it more than other faiths.
Also, are the ultra-orthadox exempt from the military service that the rest of Israelis are required to enrol in? This seems like the only opportunity for ultra-orthadox Israelis to even be exposed to outside influences
both. they supposed to enroll to army but in case they study in yeshiva they typically avoid it, till they reach the age when army "looses" interest in you.
it's one of the major pain points in israeli politics/society. army supposed to be people army but big chunk of population avoids it and all the time tries to pushes through knesset laws to make this avoidance permanent and supreme court strikes it down (because it violates equality clause)
one of the reasons for the very messy supreme court reform in israel that been ongoing for past half an year is to allow to make law that will give permanent exception from army to orthodox . they even wanted to make recently law that equates tora study to army service
I guess in countries where shots are actually fired in anger this experience may vary wildly.
At the very least an 18 year old who has been forced to fend for themselves is very different to an 18 year-old who still lives at home and has their mum do their washing.
I know who I'd rather employ.
With regards to "fending for yourself", you should visit Israel some day. It's something that is mastered by age of 8
Following orders that are barked at them by usually less intelligent people that just happen to have some stripes on their shoulder is not fending for oneself. You get fed, sleep and eat on command, what fending is there to do?
A teenager living at home has a high degree of freedom, but they don't have to fend for themselves, that is, they don't have to take responsibility for doing all the things that need doing in life, they will find their dirty shirt left on the floor, magically cleaned, ironed and put back in the wardrobe.
Someone in the army has a low amount of freedom, but they have to take responsibility for all the things that need doing in life. If they don't make sure their shirt is washed, ironed, etc they will be held responsible.
Moving into your own place for the first time is much more like fending for yourself. Having to learn to cook, wash, manage your finances. Living independently and having to live with your mistakes, not just being told off for them by a superior. And really, things that actually matter, not something stupid like not having a starched shirt in the morning. The real world no longer cares about such superficial matters.
The only thing the military is really good at teaching is obedience but at the expense of suppressing critical thought and creativity. If I were an employer I'd like my employees to tell me if they disagree and not blindly follow orders.
PS: Yes my aversion to the military is pretty clear sorry.
Interesting. Why is it that Arab Israelis are not required to serve then? Wouldn’t that same equality clause apply?
anecdotally, in past decades some arabs tend to volunteer to army/alternative service
Yes that will fix it.
My gf did confirmation because you get loads of presents, which is an easy sell to a child.
Same mistake as we make for radical Islam.
These aren't religions, they're cultures/law systems/political systems/belief systems, that encompass everything you can think of, for people born in these nothing of value exists out of them
But young people live in a more open world. The ones that still adhere to such strict rules are a tiny minority.
Say they get everything they want and they become an apartheid, theocracy…how do they expect to survive? Who will defend them from their neighbors and from their Muslim citizens?
How would the country with arguably the greatest need for a strong military in the world expect to continue existing if their most powerful and populous group refuses to fight?
We’re seeing the problem already with reservists resigning in large numbers in protest of the PMs power grab.
When I visited the West Bank, I was invited in by a family who immigrated from former USSR on grounds of Jewish ancestry. They were were not religious Jews, in fact they kept Orthodox Christian icons in their home since that was their vague cultural background. They were attracted to a West Bank settlement just because of cheaper housing than in Israel proper.
So many questions.
Why?
Does this rule apply to both genders? What about other things? Nationality, hair color?
If someone transitions into another gender do they lose the original sin that taints their original gender? Is Elliot Page responsible for the sins of men?
The settlement movement is a mix of secular nationalist people and religious Zionist (a group that contains a lot of very religious people but is socially distinct from Haredi/ultra orthodox, and the difference is immediately obvious to anyone who is familiar with the groups based on their dress code alone).
There's even a political party that caters primarily toward immigrants from the former Soviet Union that is simultaneously staunchly secular and anti-Haredi but also right wing and nationalistic.
And then you choose the phrase "not every man is a sexist" it seems pretty sexist to me to lay the blame purely on gender lines. So I'm I also responsible for you spouting this nonsense?
(Assuming you're a man, but I don't agree with your pov, so even if you're a woman, I'll still call you out)
The Haredi (aka ultra orthodox) parties are not the key drivers of the settlement enterprise. They are mostly ambivalent to the whole thing, their primary focus is preserving their lifestyle, which is less about the land and more about everything else in the religion. In fact, just last week one of the Haredi politicians published a populist rant about how Zionism is terrible, the Zionists are the root of all the problems etc etc.
The two most right-wing parties in the parliament (headed by Smotrich and Ben Gvir, respectively) are not Haredi, and their constituents do serve in the military, by and large (although less than their secular counterparts, as the women don't have to serve and there are programs that allow abbreviated service for men as far as I understand).
It's complicated..
That's mostly inaccurate. Most Haredi people don't "promote" any violence against Palestinians, since they don't see themselves as part of this conflict (they mostly identify as non Zionist), don't go to the army, and in general don't participate in any violence against Palestinians. You might be talking about religious zionists, most of their men actually do go to the army.
That’s the normal human response, not “so many people we need to contract and subtract.”
Is this really a risk? They get 85% of their drinking water from desalination and since Israel is on the Mediterranean running out of water doesn't seem likely.