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Comment by Roark66 | Hacker News Reader

At least IRC is usually logged.

However, I've noticed a disturbing trend amongst web shops. It used to be common for a shop to have it's return policy and form linked on the main page/menu. Right along side its terms&conditions, privacy policy etc. Now I noticed a couple of popular shops I interact with replaced it with "chat with us" things(IKEA in Poland, a bunch of very large clothing brands etc).

I hate it when I have to talk to crappy LLM for 5 minutes to convince it I need a human, then wait 15min because "we're having higher than usual support volume" (at which point it becomes the norm?) to then have a human ask one question and give me a RMA number and order their courier to pick it up.

So much time wasted could be recovered by a simple RMA form. I hope this trend doesn't spread everywhere.

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And then, those same companies, feign having no idea why everybody and their dog orders on Amazon.

I've never had to jump through any hoop or deal with any clueless AI to return a product.

Amazon recently started doing the same.

The "chat" button disappeared from the help & contact us, and to talk to real person you need to go through bunch of jumps.

I think that's been the case for a while other countries' marketplaces.

I still find it easier to get someone real, and returns rarely require someone real, then most other companies.

Last time I needed them was a year or so ago to deal with a broken mouse for which Logitech didn't want to handle the warranty. Logitech stringed me around for 30 minutes with random questions from a dude via chat who was obviously doing something else. This was after their "AI" asked me the same exact questions. They apparently don't deal with claims from product bought on Amazon (regular Amazon, not marketplace). But this was the guy's last question.

In contrast, the limiting factor to getting on the phone with an Amazon support person was the distance between my desk and my phone. Two minutes later, the fully-paid return label was sitting in my inbox.

Amazon is absolute garbage, no idea why people praise it so much. Scams all around and garbage products - ill take a bad return policy any day over that.

I've had 0 scams on Amazon in 15(?) Years of using it. I had one "new" product that was clearly opened, and two clicks on their website later I had a pickup ordered from my door the following day and a replacement in the way.

That's why people praise it.

So I bought a six pack of socks off Amazon once. Seemed like a low risk purchase. They arrived looking like any other sock. New packaging, didn't see anything wrong with it. Socks looked new.

They didn't feel new. You know that new sock feel you only get fresh from the package, before they've been washed? They didn't have that.

I don't know if these were factory reject socks that failed QC after the fabric softener ran out or some sort of counterfeit sock or just some sort of error that could happen anywhere, but I will never forget my Amazon marketplace betrayal.

That’s such an odd thing to hood on too, one ids socks, two you could have just returned it.

What is the most wonderful thing in the world?

Putting on a brand new pair of socks, fresh from the package.

They took that away.

It's like taking a bite of delicious cake only to find out it's shit. You can send it back to the kitchen, but it doesn't take away the whipsaw disappointment.

My point was about Amazon itself, or, at least, items shipped by Amazon. I only buy cheap junk from marketplace sellers, and even then, only if they ship via Amazon.

Never had the slightest issue with creating a fully-paid return label on my own. And if the products aren't very expensive, they don't usually wait to actually receive it before issuing the refund.

Other sellers are usually hit or miss, requiring jumping through hoops, like calling them up or filling half-broken internet forms and waiting around for them to "approve" the return.

Amazon UI is a joke even compared with such local (Poland wide) shopping sites like allegro.pl

It's not intuitive but hasn't changed in a very long time. It takes me next to no time to create a return label and even for returns after 30 days, navigating to the chat, asking for a label and receiving it rarely takes longer than 5 minutes.

They've never refused a return I asked for which has frequently happened with other shops.

I really want to support local shops, but for any product where I'm not sure if I will have to return it, I usually use Amazon because of their return policy.

> Now I noticed a couple of popular shops I interact with replaced it with "chat with us" things

> I hate it when I have to talk to crappy LLM for 5 minutes to convince it I need a human

The lovely self-indulged and intimidating in voice so-called artificial intelligence Max assistant ham-fisted on Orange help line, right next to the "would you like to authorize yourself with your voice in future- it's totally SAFE" message. How I despise that thing. They even trained it to avoid "connect me with human" line as much is possible.

Whenever I need help from that ISP and I'm facing a perspective dealing with this thing, it feels like I should just shut the hell up, leave the money, sign newest service contract without any word because the rest doesn't matter for them at all.

I do understand this assistant (and similar ones) probably does the perfect job dealing with this kind of customer who calls them with trivial issues. But that puts those people whose issues are more complex and who do really need to talk with human consultant ASAP on a hell-hole loop fencing with an algorithm.

> So much time wasted could be recovered by a simple RMA form.

Maybe that's the goal? To discourage the return of merchandise? They think customers rather write off the loss, than waste half an hour.

Someone should write a browser plugin to automate the chatting with an llm , beat them at their own game .

ChatGPT, your task is to return my item with these DETAILS, you will be talking to a bot for COMPANY.

I agree though, it's like finding the support email address. It's hidden on purpose. Use our Contact page. Please search our FAQ before talking to our Bot!

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