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Comment by fallingknife | Hacker News Reader

I refuse to call these people "environmentalists" until they provide a list of places they are ok with mining. What they are is just glorified NIMBYs who knee jerk oppose everything.

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Lithium is pretty important in terms of electrifying our economy, which is important for the global environment and climate change - and it's got to come from somewhere.

It's also true that mines have a huge track record of getting in, digging stuff up, making money, and then leaving the mess for someone else to clean up.

If you look at the satellite map of the area, you see the former Cordero mercury mine: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9221322,-117.8162339,7151m/d...

There's a whole report on it here: https://response.epa.gov/site/site_profile.aspx?site_id=7029

> The EPA Site Assessment program conducted a Site Inspection in 1988 which recommended no further action. Upon request from the Fort McDermitt Pauite Shoshone Tribe, EPA Emergency Response conducted an additional site visit in November 2009. At that time, EPA was notified of the possibility that mine waste had been used as fill at locations within the town of McDermitt and on the Fort McDermitt Paiute Shoshone Reservation.

In other words, they tried to get out of doing any cleanup. Then they found that "well, actually..." there was some cleanup needed.

So... it's probably still worth doing because of climate change, but it'd sure be nice to ensure it's done right, and they do right by the people who have always lived there. I imagine the local tribes are also pretty wary of getting screwed, because that is something that has been very much par for the course throughout US history.

In that case environmentalists should be very much in favor of the mine. Mining in the US is much cleaner than in most other countries so mining it here is not only better for our economy, but for the environment as well.

Your example actually is proof of this. It got cleaned up. It wouldn't in most countries.

Australia (where most lithium is being mined ATM) isn’t so far behind on the cleanup side. They are a liberal democracy after all. It isn’t clear to me if they are just getting off easy because they are shipping unrefined lithium ore to China, however.

These proposed lithium mines are going to be tiny though, compared to other minerals. For example Thacker Pass is only planning to disturb 6000 acres, which is basically nothing. Every oil well in Texas is on 1 to 5 acres of disturbed land and there are a quarter-million of those in Texas alone. The amount of land that has been scraped flat for oil is incredible.

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.0170789,-98.9525815,39702m/d...

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.2481804,-102.7177912,13375m/...

You only have to glance around to find other mine disturbances. They are sized proportionately to the amount of the material humans want. Copper mines are pretty impressive. Potash and borax mines are rather large. Iron mines are absolutely gigantic.

It's not the hole that ruins the environment. It's what comes out of it.

Lithium, which is required to diversify into renewable energy.

If only the only thing that came out of a mine was what the company took away with them.

Agree, nobody wants to know or see how the sausage is made, they just want the sausage.

Assumption that EVs are cleaner in a nutshell.

To be clear I think EVs are cleaner, but you can’t conclude that from the fact that it doesnt emit while driving. EVs just squeeze the emission event further up the supply chain where a shocking amount of people don’t see it.

They’re more efficient than burning oil and we currently “mine” for oil so I don’t see how that’s not true

NIMBYS say that things should be built/mined, just not near them.

Pretty sure those protestors are driving there in vehicles using mined minerals, fueling them with energy refined and extracted using mined minerals (and likely burning fossil fuels too), etc.

If that isn’t saying things should be mined, just not where they can see it, I don’t know what is.

They published a list, your home is on it. When can we start drilling?

Not OP. But as soon as they transfer money in compensation that's fair and represents the value of the land. Or, I'm happy to take a 20% cut of all resources mined from my property. They can demolish it entirely and turn it into a giant hole for all I care.

> as they transfer money in compensation that's fair and represents the value of the land

I mean, if I'm a native American, I am not going to have a whole lot of faith in that process...

Buy my land at a premium, I’ll gladly retire early!

Environmentalist is a very broad label. Some folks - likely those native Americans - don't want their (ancestral) lands permanently poisoned. Theyre not necessarily weighing in on a strategy for a global energy transition. Why should they have to?

"NIMBY" might be accurate, but "knee-jerk" is unfair.

Its already holding up different lithum mines in Nevada https://apnews.com/article/business-nevada-plants-climate-an...

Yes yes, those pesky native Americans are TOTAL NIMBY's.

And there's such a prestine track record of resource extraction by trillion-dollar conglomerates.

/s/s

I think the knee jerking is yours.

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