Thinking Different | Hacker News Reader

Thinking Different

bradgessler.com

72 pointskrat0sprakhar34 comments

> Now almost every digital device I own is made by Apple, not because its perfect or the best on the market, but because it represents the virtues of craftsmanship in a world of mediocre, mass-produced products.

Err... their products are mostly mass-produced (not crafted) in the same places most of the other products are mass-produced.

Well, of course they are mass-produced. You, him, and everybode else here knows that.

But there's craftmanship in design: Read something about how Jobs/Apple goes about designing a product. There's an intense passion to get the look, feel and functionality about a product just right. Down to having several iterations of design on the packaging alone.

There's also craftmanship in production. There was an article about how Apple was buying up high powered lasers to puncture microscopic holes in the macbook casings, so you have lights that are invisible when they're not on.

I wish more companies would care as much about the whole experience of a product, rather than just getting more dots on the feature list.

Excellent points. I think if the original poster had written something more like this we would all agree, but writing "mass produced" in the pejorative sense when Apple is exactly that called for a bit of a rebuttal.

"Production" refers to design as well as the assembly of atoms. In that context, a company that produces a few models of thngs is craftsmanlike when contrasted with companies that put out dozens of slight variations on the same thing, almost as if shipping twelve handsets is a/b testing...

I agree that Apple's stuff looks classy, has a nice aesthetic, and has a lot of design work that goes into it, but it's also important to see some of the marketing hype for what it is. It's not hand-crafted by gnomes steeped in the crafts of wafer etching, working from little cabins high in the Tirolean Alps.

Yes, Apple products are not hand-crafted by gnomes, but they do represent a set of priorities that are rare in the world of manufacturing. I think it is more than a marketing gimmick; there is truly a desire to produce a quality product rather than only maximizing profit. I'm sure there were many times where Jobs vetoed a design decision where a little money could be saved at the expense of quality. I hope that the future leadership of Apple continues to have that courage.

How is that not just a made up caricature? What single example of Apple's marketing can you show that suggests anything of the sort?

The only marketing materials I've seen from Apple that say anything about how the products are made show Jony Ive in a workshop talking about industrial machine processes.

I was responding to the "virtues of craftsmanship in a world of mediocre, mass-produced ...", which is not Apple's.

Craftsmanship is a broader concept than hand-crafted, and covers the looking classy/nice aesthetic/lot of design work you mentioned.

It really is a testament to their marketing prowess when people un-ironically title their brand love letters with the brand's marketing slogan.

Especially when that slogan is grammatically incorrect.

According to Walter Isaacson's biography of Steve Jobs it's not-"think different" is a command to think of something that is different, as opposed to thinking of things differently.

marketing at its best, last time i checked apple wasn't the first company to "think different" and soon another company will be disruptive and force apple to move in a new direction or new markets, thats just how the world works.

This is inevitable of course. However, Apple has a strong history of continually disrupting itself.

Apple...Gandhi? Really? I thought the article was being ironic. The thing about a big fail like Mike Daisey's is that it shuts down valid debate. Apple ends, great. Means? Iffy.

I'm sorry, but apple hasn't done anything innovative since the creation of the iPhone. That was huge, don't get me wrong, but every one of their devices has simply been a rehash of their previous model. That is also fine, business as usual, safe, effective, and decent quality, but it isn't "thinking different."

Physical attractiveness is nice, but I want a tool that works for me, not that I sit and stare at because it's pretty. I'll take an ugly thinkpad over the sleek macs any day.

I was hoping at least one comment would point out how the message and the form of the web site are integrated.

> We believe that people with passion can change the world for the better

Like putting nets in front of their manufacturing buildings so workers don't resort to suicide:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357833/Apple-respon...

You may not mean to, but this is a perfect example of a trolling comment. It has high emotional leverage, but is not actually on-topic for this particular post about Apple. Think of it this way: Is there something about this comment that can only make sense to this post? Or could it really be made on practically any post abaout Apple?

I suspect you could say this whenever Apple comes up. iPad 3 retina display? "Amazing because you can clearly see the individual ropes in the nets on buildings..."

This comment could easily end up generating 50% of the comments here, while adding nothing new that hasn't been said before, just the same old accusations and defences. Would that really be signal? Or noise?

There could be something here, perhaps instead of trotting out a sound bite, you could present a theory of how ideals become corrupted by money, or how idealism is blind to consequences. I'm still waiting for someone to unify the way Google and Apple behave with a common narrative.

And does this pompous letter from Jobs add anything new that hasn't been said before? This post is the same as any other Apple aggrandizing post here, of course the comments will fall into the same old tropes, but I hardly think icode is the one opening those floodgates.

Here's a thought: is that bad? I mean, isn't this exactly what HN does? If we actually wanted to hear something that hadn't been said time and time again, we sure wouldn't be looking for it on HN (unless we found HN in the last month or so).

Your remark on signal v noise really got me thinking. I think my time here has expired, there is no more new signal to be found, just the same old same old framed in whatever current event or blog post we're talking about. I came to HN this morning to kill time while my roommate is using the shower, but now I'm going for a bike ride instead and stop visiting this website anymore. Bye, Hacker News, it was fun while it lasted!

The article refers to changing the world and is illustrated with a photo of Ghandi. I don't know about you, but I get a strange feeling when Ghandi is used to illustrate the values of a company that is exploiting poor people to make toys for rich people.

What you just said improves upon the original criticism immensely by being much more specific and tying the ideas together.

http://web.mit.edu/krugman/www/smokey.html

Look, I don't have a single Apple device, and I'm closer to a GNU fundie than an Apple lover, but:

1. Foxconn is not Apple

2. The suicide rate at Foxconn is lower than both the average in China and the average in the US: http://articles.businessinsider.com/2010-05-26/tech/30097107...

Wrt to point 2: was that before or after the nets?

Is it equally cynical when municipalities put safety nets on bridges?

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/07/29/iconic-golden-gate-bridge-...

That people might have been driven to choose suicide due to overwork or abuse is the problem, not the safety nets.

NB: The Golden Gate Bridge is not municipally owned. It's owned and managed by a public agency associated with multiple counties in northern California.

No it is not, municipalities are not related to why people suicide as companies are

Just for the record, the Daily Mail is not a credible newspaper.

in a world where fox news is taken for face value by many people, credibility is losing its credibility. at least someone is looking for more information.

That's a perfectly practical solution. Grim as it is, it's better to have nets than people splattered on the pavement.

sorry for the grammar nitpick, but its a 'foreword' not a 'forward'

Maybe he's referring to the last line: We hope this book helps carry that spirit forward.

I love the recursion!

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