FTC judge decides Intuit’s ‘free’ TurboTax ads misled consumers
theverge.com
theverge.com
Their marketing emails are particularly deceptive, and if you try to opt out of them and unsubscribe, they force you to enter personal information you don't readily have access to to "confirm your identity."
I lost a lot of respect for Intuit from the lack of respect they show consumers.
If you had any respect for them at any time, you probably shouldn't have. The level of corruption that they support is stunningly humongous. And even if you're using your "local tax person" - you're likely to be still making them money... as many CPAs use Intuit's software.
Anyone who’s been in the game for more than a few years knows how amoral companies are. Marketers and growth PMs are incentivized to convert, regardless of the methods used. Execs don’t give a shit unless there’s an impact on revenue.
Anecdata - I PM a product suite that serves growth/marketers. If you’re reading this, your company has probably used it, is actively using it, or has considered using it. I regularly ask customers and prospects about their KPIs during research calls - in the end, conversion is all that matters.
Intuit can fleece me all they want. Give me non-BS advanced features and I will gladly pay way more. Just don't trick my mom & dad. But I guess they need to make their money from the masses.
Tricking your parents into paying for things that they don't even need - that's where the money is.
Selling 20 $2mil cars per years isn't as valuable as selling 1mil "cheap" $700 iPhones per year.
Question is - how does it excuse Intuit at all?
Manchin has long not toed the line with Democrats, and Sinema is officially not a Democrat, so they are not even at 50 senate votes. And they are the minority in the House, so they clearly do not have any control of Congress.
You also need 60 votes in the Senate for whatever reason, which they are nowhere close to. The last time sort of had it, which was again a heavily compromised 60 votes, was Jun to Dec 2009 during which time PPACA was passed.
And when Democrats were stronger in Congress earlier in Biden's term they did pass legislation giving funding to the IRS to explore developing software for doing taxes (Sec. 10301 (1)(B) of the Inflation Reduction Act[2]).
Further, when Republicans forced the Fiscal Responsibility Act of 2023 during the last debt ceiling increase "crisis" they specifically listed (1)(B) as part of their recension of funds[3], though I don't think it had any meaningful impact because the study had already been made and released. [4]
Because $15,000,000 was a really big deal to the federal deficit. /s
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_divisions_of_United_Stat...
[2] https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-117publ169/html/PLA...
[3] https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-118publ5/html/PLAW-...
[4] https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-submits-direct-file-report-...
No, Democrats are not in charge of Congress; Republicans have a majority in the House of Representatives and Democrats have a narrow majority, relying on two members that fairly consistently undermine Democratic policy priorities, in the Senate (and even without that problem don't have the 60 votes it takes to move normal legislation over a filibuster in the Senate.)
Because corruption goes both ways. There's a reason one party blames the other for X when the other is in power, and then do nothing about X when they are in power.
"The report focuses on three areas: taxpayer opinions, cost and feasibility. The report also includes an analysis conducted by an independent third party, as required by the statute. The report also lays out the potential benefits and challenges associated with the IRS implementing a Direct File program."
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-submits-direct-file-report-...
There is no radical movement discussed within our government to actually solve these problems. No politician is making serious attempts to improve our bureaucratic system.
Almost had them with force the vote.
Obama pushed the ACA (Obamacare), had to compromise to get it passed, later it was gutted by Republicans, with key provisions remaining
1. Children can remain on parent's healthcare plan until 26
2. Insurance companies can't deny coverage for existing diseases
Republicans almost got rid of these provisions and it was saved by one vote from John McCain who did it out of spite and not because he agreed with the ACA [1]
[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/health/obamacare/mccain-hated-obamac...
I hit this two years ago. When I finally undid it (took me a good 20-30 minutes), it removed all the work I did. I then had the option to restore it for $80 and it was still implying that I had to pay this no matter what. I spent another 20 minutes trying to fill things out again before I hit a loop that wouldn't let me through without paying. The issue seemed to be that I was working remote in a different state and it was trying to get me to file taxes with both states even though it said I didn't need to file anything! I sucked it up and paid. So I avowed to never use them again. Last year I used FreeTaxUSA and had no issues. I just paid $15 for state and that was it. My taxes are simple, able to use a 1040EZ, having to pay $80 is a fucking joke.
Fuck TurboTax, I'm never going back. Fuck this whole system too. We should at minimum have return free filing for 1040EZ users but really should for almost everyone. Seriously, Meta/Equifax/etc can collect all my financial info but the fucking IRS can't use all the information that is legally required to be sent to them to send me a fucking bill (really a rebate)? What a fucking joke. One party wants to kill the IRS, why not at least make it not a fucking joke and bureaucratic shit show first?
That shouldn't be legal, and I'm surprised that doesn't get their emails redirected to /dev/null by everyone. Stuff like that doesn't even deserve the modicum of respect that getting sent to Spam denotes, mail providers should just reject it at the MTA until Intuit stops.
Edit: And also severe penalties for failing to actually unsubscribe someone within 24 hours of clicking that button. I don't want to hear any "it could take up to a week" bullshit. If people can transfer millions of dollars in a matter of days, they should be able to take me off a mailing list instantly.
Otherwise, I'm not inclined to give an advertising company control over the worldwide opt-out process for advertising emails...
The 24 hours vs 7 days thing doesn't bother me at all, frankly. I care about not getting your bullshit for the next decade. If you squeak 4 more in and then stop because you have (or claim to have) a bunch of nightly processes that all need to complete, fine.
They do charge for oddball forms, but they're super up front about that. Like when you select the forms they tell you the price. I have multiple income streams and multiple weirdo tax situations (farming, day job, three consulting firms, my own consulting) and it still only takes me 30 minutes to do my taxes with them.
> The name sounds super sketchy, but they're legit.
I've told them to change their name, and my relative has told them to change their name.
Their marketing department is...dumb, IMO. (My relative told me about a semi-recent marketing campaign, and it was laughable.) But quite frankly, I prefer a company where the marketing department is the only incompetent one.
>I prefer a company where the marketing department is the only incompetent one.
I have never thought about that, but it is exactly spot on. They're really good at what they do and really bad at selling it. Word of mouth seems to be the only way they get customers. I read about them on reddit and started using them. Now I tell everyone about that service.
You're absolutely correct. Fortunately, my relative is aware. Unfortunately, she's tried to tell them, and they don't believe her.
It annoys her so much.
But no, they're actually good and just have terrible marketing and design.
Sure makes doing my taxes interesting. I've been using them for three years
Maybe we should realize WE are in the wrong for conflating "Shiny, animation filled website" with "not scam".
I did ask them about this two years ago, so if they don't add it for 2023, I'll have to look into other options.
I don’t usually recommend products but Free Tax USA is one of the most honest companies I’ve dealt with online, they’ve never thrown a curveball at me. It’s refreshing to deal with a company who is satisfied with just making money and not squeezing every possible dollar out of you.
> x is bad because of this obvious reason that it is bad
> "but y and z are also bad!"
what is that supposed to be a rebuttal to? is the implication that we should.. do nothing because everything else is also shit? i don't see why turbotax in this instance shouldn't be punished. that would set a nice precedent at least
I don't see why they should only be punished 141 million dollars - they undoubtedly made a lot more money than that out of these shady practices. Therefore, this is just a "cost of doing business" and won't curtail such behavior in the future.
Not until the penalty is severe enough to put the fear into them.
If we don't make the fines something like 3x the gains by default, but leave it at 1x disgorgement, we should expect rational players to keep playing the game the same way.
All weapons are illegal. Purpose made, improvised, even just I picked up a glass and threatened people with it, that's a weapon and it's illegal to have weapons.
Resisting simplifying tax filing, to keep the tax system annoying, is seen as a way to build anti-tax political support. Among other things, that creates opportunities for barnacles like Intuit to scam people out of money like this. And once Intuit funds those pols' re-election bids, the cycle of life is complete.
Coalitions are funny things. Sometimes it is hard to tell who is suckering whom.
that type of easy service and peace of mind is just toooo good for only $70. blows my mind that everyone doesn't do it.
FreeTaxUSA doesn't pull any nonsense & I've been happy with it every year since.
And most Americans just pretend that it's "fine".
Fun fact - to avoid under-withholding my CPA wants to charge me $2300 per year, that's not tax deductible. A simple thing of making sure that my withholdings are correct throughout the year and I don't have to pay IRS more in April...
So no. This is a corrupt system, that most Americans just pretend is "the norm".
I am open to more direct evidence to the contrary though.
Right now, for the vast majority of the population, especially those who don't just pay an accountant, their taxes consist of a "Where's Waldo" copy-and-paste adventure combining information from their W-2s and 1099s onto a handful of other forms, then adding up like 3 numbers. If that describes your tax filing experience, a pre-filled form would be perfect. Any omitted details are more likely to be in the government's favor than your own.
The whole system is created to screw you... and yet many people defend it.
I have done that in multiple countries - getting tax refunds and other benefits at the end of the tax year. I even ran a business in the "tax heavy EU", where all of my tax related duties were at most 30 minutes per month(that's with payroll and other common business bookeping)
Meanwhile in US - IRS knows what you owe, IRS is legally banned to tell you and you're forced to pay a third party to send your documentation to IRS... oh... and they also make mistakes very often.
Yet for some reason, people like you are up in arms.. do you work at Intiut or something?
The UI is just as good as TurboTax or H&R block.
I just copied my data to FreeTaxUSA and filed everything for free. Fuck them.
And I think some 1099-R codes used to have buggy question flow, but it's better now.
So far that's the only two things I've found worse than TurboTax, and certainly not worth paying Intuit for.
I do this every year. Got into the habit because some index fund thing I had a couple bucks of in my portfolio did some weird shit with stock dividends and ended up producing over a hundred transactions amounting to just over the "round to zero" amount of profit. It's really not that much of a headache as long as you have access to a printer. One form, check a box, scribble "TO THE IRS" on an envelope and jam it and your 1099 in and call it a day. Not a soul is going to bother checking the details anyway, since they already have the contents of your 1099.
the issue is for non-covered shares, where they don't have the full contents of the 1099.
They're also great to their employees. My relative got a mostly paid vacation recently on top of great PTO.
Edit: Also, my relative is partially responsible for the UI, so she's happy to hear you like it.
My god, at that rate you might as well just hire a private accountant.
I think Intuit has made almost as much money from my book as I have!
I’m sure they’ll get a fine of 1% of their earnings.
Just as a point of reference, military tribunals and immigration courts also fall outside of Article III as well.
[0] - https://wp.nyu.edu/compliance_enforcement/2023/06/12/ftc-dim...
[1] - https://ogletree.com/insights/supreme-court-ruling-questions...
The Federalist Society has been workshopping this fringe theory that Congress isn't allowed to delegate enforcement decisions to federal agencies and that administrative judges are somehow unconstitutional. This was an unsuccessful (!) argument against the New Deal, but now thanks to a far-right Supreme Court it's a live issue again.
Can you imagine if Congress had to vote on whether to punish Intuit for misleading ads? It would obviously result in the effective end of entire categories of regulation.
Due process and equal protection.
I don't find that a convincing argument.
Sense #3 here https://www.dictionary.com/browse/workshop