> But indeed, a lot of Chinese cultured towns are chaotic by nature.
See we agree? :) I told you I was right. Thanks for sharing your perspective, anyway! I learned something about the background, it's good to know! :)
> First, it was 4000 years ago when the Chinese culture was completely different.
I'm saying, in this way, it wasn't.
> ... Things are intentionally majestic. ...
The majesty you mention accounts for imperial buildings, right? Those are indeed well designed. But that is not how "the people" live. It is not the culture overall. It is a testament and symbol to an ideal and a governing system. But outside of these glorious compounds, it's Chinese culture's inherent urban chaos, not the Emperor's aesthetics, that reigns. No?
A point you seem to support in ...
> ... it's carefully non-majestical ...
This is very interesting. Thank you for that education. It has added to my knowledge and perspective! Very interesting.
Also, but I wouldn't really consider Shanghai a southern city, would you? I think there are plenty of undeniably northern cities that would be chaotic: there's so many, pick one--Tianjin? The downtown and main places are gorgeous for sure, but what about the suburban places, the crowded developments and residential skyscrapers, is the urban design of the streets around these places highly ordered? How about the subway? I don't know. My bet is no, tho, based on my extensive experience in Chinese cities--but in truth, I really do need to collect additional experience with more of the very many mainland cities I have yet to visit!
> ... But indeed, a lot of Chinese cultured towns are chaotic by nature ...
I think to be honest there you need to say cities not towns, to not artificially misrepresent that this ad-hoc chaoticness is only a provincial thing, not something seen in the bit cites, when in my experience it very much is so! It permeates the very fabric of Chinese culture (rich fabric to be sure, but this thread cannot be denied). You seem to provide extensive additional support for this idea by your invocation of the deliberately a-majestic Suzhou Garden, and the non-threateningly 'flat org chart' of Chinese society, both very illuminating for me to hear (but also reinforcing of my aforementioned contemplation upon my extensive experience).