Important types of pizza in America | Hacker News Reader

Important types of pizza in America

bloomberg.com

50 pointsioblomov70 comments

The thing that shocked me about NYC on my first trip there was how every little stereotype and preconception I had about it was spot-on accurate. The cabbies, tourists, rats, people (and their attitude) and of course the pizza! For some reason I thought it was all just TV and movies embelshing details lazily.

The $0.99 Pizza slices are better than pizza I have had almost anywhere else, with one exception being another hell's kitchen spot that served Neapolitan pizza (Naples style pizza) which tasted different and better than any other, I can't describe it other than to say all the flavours and textures were "more" and tasted less manufactured and more home cooked.

My favorite thing about the dollar pizza is how you can see so many people happily walking around holding the distinctive paper plates, for blocks and blocks around each location.

I pretty much love all styles of pizza, which I think comes down to setting expectations. If you're expecting pizza style x and you get pizza style y you're going to think it's bad. (Note: within styles there are bad pizzas.)

But Neapolitan, it's on another level to me. I still remember the first time I had it at Settebello in SLC back in the mid 2000s. From that day, my dream was to have a backyard oven to make it. Several years back I got an Ooni pizza oven and it has been a delight. Dough, sauce, mozzarella, basil, and fire. It's so simple and pure yet magical.

I last made some two days ago. After eating I told my wife, "I think everyone in the world deserves to taste this." I really do.

I have a Blackstone propane-fueled oven[1] that gives off major A380 vibes (it's really ugly), but it puts out some of the best pizza I eat on a regular basis. It's amazing that with just a few simple ingredients, and lots and lot of fire, I'm able to make this stuff at home.

[1] https://www.mooseonfire.com/home/2015/1/4/product-review-the...

> people (and their attitude)

I've always found that New Yorkers aren't as rude as people say, they just tend to get right to the point in a way that people from, e.g., northern California may find off-putting.

I feel like New York “style” pizza is, well, not great. Usually it’s over sized making it difficult to eat. The crust is more reminiscent of oiled cardboard.

Most pizza outlets make them factory style and bake them at 10am then reheat your slice or pizza when you order it. Why anyone thinks this is notable and not disappointing is exasperating to me.

There are some good New York pizza place, di fara comes to mind. But the ones like di fara are closer to neapolitan pizza, not New York.

> Why anyone thinks this is notable and not disappointing is exasperating to me.

Normally I'm the kind of person who has a bias against things not "fresh" but this one doesn't phase me in the slightest. I suspect it's because NY-style pizza re-heated in this matter (or even as next-day leftovers in a Hot oven) are damn good! Something about it, it comes back to life just perfectly to me.

Same with braises and take away fried rice ... it's just better on the next day.

Very authentic. Worth it at a dollar a slice.

Your problem is that you went to a pizza place that had so few customers, they were still serving their morning pies late into the day! A good pizza place should be going through several pies an hour, at least during the lunch and dinner rushes.

Even "several pies an hour" isn't going to pay the $6,000+ /mo rent on a typical hole-in-the-wall NYC pizza joint. They better be slinging at least 6-8 pies or more if they want to stay in business.

You fold it then you eat it.

I cannot think of a single slice shop (non-chain) in NY / NJ where you they produce pies like you describe. They are making the pizza from scratch.

They reheat the slices until they run out of a pie. Then they make a new pie and put it on the counter.

I think what you mean is that most most New York style pizza outside of greater New York area is not great. I don't know what I'd call it.

Standard fare, affordable pizza in the US is mediocre outside of the North East. But that's OK, we can't even BBQ.

> You fold it then you eat it.

I’m very aware, then you get a grease slick coming down your arm or pants. Ruined many a shirt that way.

If that was unavoidable, you'd see thousands of people on the streets of the five boroughs walking around with grease all over their arms and pants. Hilarious image.

I hate to say it, but it doesn’t seem like you’re very aware.

I grew up eating this greasy stuff; you either dab the grease off with a napkin or fold it and let it drip on the plate.

You don’t do what you described unless you’re unaware that it’s going to happen. If you indeed ruined many a shirt this way, you are so incredibly unaware that I stand aghast at your unawareness.

Point it down and not up.

What do you consider good pizza? American chain pizza style?

You mention Neapolitan pizza, but that's typically a very wet pizza from oil and fresh mozzarella as well.

What? Di Fara is nothing like Neapolitan style. That is a classic NY slice through and through.

Di Fara even calls it Neapolitan style https://www.goldbelly.com/di-fara-pizza/classic-pepperoni-ne...

Neapolitan in this case is their branding for shipping 2 pies. Every pizzaria will use terms like Neapolitan, and maybe something in them (the founder, the recipe, or who knows what) came from Naples, but the Neapolitan pizza is generally referring to a smaller pizza for one or two people that comes out of a much hotter oven (usually wood-fired) than what a slice joint has installed, and which is served and eaten fresh, not cut into slices and sold by the slice.

https://archive.ph/xjJMa

That just gives me a never-ending captcha.

Same, been happening to me for a couple days. What's up with that?

The operator of archive.today et al has certain philosophical ideas about SSL, EDNS subnets, and other topics which seem to be at odds with some providers of DNS, such as Cloudflare. A common theme of folks having issues with this recently seems to be DNS over https, commonly with Cloudflare. I think perhaps we can view the captcha loop as somewhat retaliatory.

I wish they could stop using CF

I recently found it's due to Cloudflare DNS. Cloudflare uses DNS over HTTPS and for some reason archive.today (russian) rejects it (likely anti-privacy measure).

Apparently from what I understand the owner of archive.today wants all requests to go across international boundaries (so if you are in the US and want to archive, it routes you to a non-US server) so that any takedown requests are international.

Cloudflare DNS obscures the requesting endpoint or something.

Same here for me.

It's annoying that they block users on Cloudflare DNS.

Really makes it impossible to read some of these articles.

This misses two of the most important types: homemade on a baking sheet using dough from the box mix or tube, and frozen pizza.

Both types aren’t represented in restaurants but are widely consumed across America.

Frozen pizza is relatively common at bars around here - they don’t even hide it, it’s a freezer full of pizza they will cook for you.

The pizza shown as 'Chicago Tavern' style looks and is described exactly like what we had my in Midwestern city as a kid, and was called <my city> style locally.

Later, I found out they also call it Cincinnati style, I guess in Cincinnati?

Whatever the case may be, I highly recommend it if you come across it. Don't have anything like it in the southwest, and I find myself craving it randomly a few times a year.

Kenji actually brought this up in a recent video where he shows how to make this style pizza. Also - pro tip, you can make this in a home oven, doesn't require crazy hot temps like a Napolitano. I wonder if it truly is from Chicago given that it was also in my hometown (supposedly), before the date he claimed it was in Chicago.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/17/dining/tavern-thin-crust-...

You can make just about everything in a home oven except Neapolitan.

https://archive.md/TcVQe

Yeah, every town has this style. And it’s fine but it’s sort of been overexposed and I’m not sure why it has a “Chicago Style” name other than people covering for their more famous deep dish style which is at once terrible and amazing.

Every town has thin pizza cut into squares, but Chicago tavern pizza is subtler than that. You can, for instance, get a thin crust square-cut pizza from Giordanos or Lou Malnatis (two bastions of Chicago deep dish). Neither thin pizza is a Chicago tavern pizza.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/17/dining/tavern-thin-crust-...

We had the same kinda thing in central Ohio. It's basically the same as Marion's and others around Cinci, but the Chicago tavern style is much thinner and more cracker like. If you're ever in Chicago, my favorite is a place called My Pi in Bucktown. It's my favorite pizza of all time. I visited my hometown for the first time in about 12 years right after that and got a piece of my favorite place. It's decently thicker and more chewy.

Gotcha. Just looked up Marion's and you're right, that's exactly the pizza I was talking about.

For anyone curious, here is a quick link pic of Marion's - https://i0.wp.com/gotheretrythat.com/wp-content/uploads/2016...

Aurelio's in Chicagoland is my favorite in this genre.

Used to love this living in MN (Gyro pizza with tzatziki sauce!), interesting to hear it's 'a style' at all. It makes perfect sense it's a popular tavern style, the small pieces are great for sharing (and long drinking sessions).

Wow, that's the least appetizing set of pizzas I've ever seen, bravo bloomberg on ruining pizza.

What are you even talking about, they all look delicious.

I lived in St Louis for almost a decade and never got used to what they call 'pizza'. I argue with my wife about it (she grew up there): I say it's just cracker dough with pizza toppings, but she insists it's legitimate. One day I made one from scratch using my cracker dough recipe. She said it was authentic and good. <shrug> I'll take literally any deep dish over St Louis style.

I’m not american but New Haven pizza is the only one my bucketlist. Sally’s - Frank Pepe - Modern Apizza, the holy trinity

Also I highly recommend the Munchies Pizza show on Youtube, probably the best documentary about all the pizza styles in the US and Italy

New Haven episode https://youtu.be/BmiQRvib3DQ

If you can make room for a fourth, add BAR for their mashed potato bacon

New Haven pizza is excellent, but Frank Pepe and Sally's are overrated in my humble opinion. Additionally consider checking out Zanelli's, which is across the street from Sally's and one of the best and most unique places in New Haven.

Having lived in several of the US cities with a famous pizza culture, and visited most of the rest, I will say that New Haven definitely has the highest median and mode quality of pizza places in the US. There was a place called Brick Oven Pizza there that famously had "Rated 11th best pizza place in New Haven" on their box for a few years, which is a much stronger claim than most cities.

There was a pizza joint in the Oakland Neighborhood of Pittsburgh back in the ‘90s called Sorrento’s that had what they called a Chicago style pizza and I’ve been unable to find the style since. It wasn’t tavern style or the super deep dish. It was closer to a traditional round pie, but there was just something special about it I don’t know how to articulate.

This is missing Colorado mountain style, Beau Jo's

Just had Beau Jo’s the other night. Truly unique and a shame it’s not represented!

Fellow enjoyers of NYC dollar pizza may find it amusing that there is a charming 2 Bros replica (?) in Kobe, Japan:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/iNcFqbTCjGYzPPyH6

Unfortunately they broke the illusion with all of those fancy free condiments.

For the Chicago thin crust pizza lovers (like myself) - leaving this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mIbyUgNOlo

St. Louis mentioned! Pair it with some Fritz's and toasted ravioli.

One of the secrets to NYC style pizza is flour that’s not only super high in gluten (14%+) but also bromated. All Trumps flour is commonly used since it’s so stretchy and manageable and creates great pizza dough. Of course the issue being that bromated flour may be a carcinogen and is banned in many countries.

If you’re making at home in a home oven my best tip is use diastatic malt powder in your dough. Use the highest glutton you can get and go for moisture of 70%. Pizza steel obviously. And cold ferment for at least 2 days.

They are missing Boston Style Greek Pizza. Which is not what you call "good" pizza but an inexplicable regional pizza that isn't worse then St. Louis Pizza.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/ev4zya/greek-pizza-is-the-be...

#1. Pineapple

Out. Out with you...

https://satwcomic.com/how-to-break-iceland-s-spirit

Cheese? YES!!! Broccoli? YES!!! Fish? YES!!!

Pineapple? NO!!!

I can't even imagine a more disgusting pizza topping!

Followup: https://satwcomic.com/food-crimes

Sir, you're testing my commitment to free speech.

What kind of commitment is he testing? I'm not entirely sure that the GP is overly inciting anything...

Lately I’ve found that the people who complain about pineapple on pizza these days are the sort of people who used to love it until they found out that you should hate pineapple on pizza, probably the same sort of people that would’ve sneered at putting tomato on flatbread back in 1600s Italy.

My theory is that the backlash is largely due to implementation problems. The pineapple chunks need to be small, without that tough part of the pineapple and they should be paired with a contrasting strong flavor like spicy or savory. A lot of pizza places don't bother with either - chunks too big, paired with sad ham. I think a lot of these people haven't had good pizza with pineapple, or it's been so long they forgot, and that's just an injustice against humanity.

Yes! I usually order some kind of combo pizza then add pineapple and anchovies. The pineapple needs something to balance.

That's an oddly specific and nuanced set of facts to know about various people. Are they confessing this to you, and if so is it spontaneous or under your examination? Or, are you reading this into their psyches from a distance? Or, are you making these observations about people at different parts of their lives before and after their respective inflection points regarding when they personally come to realize hating pineapple on pizza is popular?

Yep, people I’ve known my whole life, used to order Hawaiian pizza with them years ago, now they make gagging noises when someone else orders it.

I will echo your sentiment even with the obvious caveat of “this may not apply to everyone everywhere so please avoid the obligatory well-actually response”.

It’s just a social wave/trend, it’ll pass in a few years and suddenly everyone will love pineapple on pizza again. Go figure.

Personally I have hated it as long as I can remember (over 20 years), especially since many Finnish microwave/oven ham "pizzas" often contained pineapple that I had to pick out manually (and still had to deal with the leftover juices).

This reminds me of one of my favourite pizza facts: Hawaiian pizza was invented in Canada.

No Maryland pizza. No, it's not covered in old bay. Square pizza! Thin-ish doughy dough. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/09/01/maryland-...

I'm not surprised but I want to mention it.

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