Comment by javajosh | Hacker News Reader

Comment by javajosh | Hacker News Reader

I use Chrome in development on a Windows box. Here is my experience with this upgrade:

   1. Upgraded manually from 116.0.5845.179 to 116.0.5845.180 through About dialog.
   2. Restart. No notification that anything has changed.
   3. Go to settings, privacy and security, privacy guide, and on the 4th page (only 3 pips!)
   Or go to settings, privacy and security, Ad privacy (the new element)

   4. The privacy guide blurb: Privacy Sandbox trial
      Chrome is exploring new features that allow sites 
      to deliver the same browsing experience using less of your data

   Under Ad privacy:
   5. Ad topics: Site-suggested ads. 
     Based on your activity on a site. This setting is on.
   6. Site-suggested ads. 
     Based on your activity on a site. This setting is on.
   7. Ad measurement. 
     Sites and advertisers can understand how ads perform. 
     This setting is on.

This roll out is filled with dark patterns. At (2) there is no notification that anything has changed. If not for this article, I would not have known about this at all. At (3) the feature seems intentionally hidden. At (4) the description of these features misleads the user that the purpose is to "use less of their data". This is false, or at least badly misleading. At (5,6,7) they've defaulted all new "features" to "on".

This is all so shady, and very un-Google like. I have such high regard for the Chrome team: was there push back on this? Do they realize what a bad look this is?

> Do they realize what a bad look this is?

Let's say that they do realize it. The 0.x% of users that are aware of, understand, and will do anything other than just blindly continuing to use the software is an acceptable number of lost users. In other words, everyone reading HN could stop using Chrome right now, and Googs would not notice the blip

> This is all so shady, and very un-Google like

Where have you been the last several years?

I was expecting this response, and let me say: it fills me with distaste. You cut off any possibility of improvement, on their part, because no matter what they do, you won't accept it. It is the opposite of constructive criticism: it is an ideological stance.

New privacy features that ship less finger printing data? Part of some nefarious plot to harm their competitors ability to harvest data. Won't anybody think of the poor third party tracking/finger printing providers?

> because no matter what they do, you won't accept it.

It's not about acceptance. It's about trust. Trust has two key components:

1) It's earned. Full stop.

2) Regardless of how much trust equity you've built, it can be lost instantly.

Like it or not, this is how trust works. Accepting what Google does is one thing, but at this point there's no reasonable reason to trust it.

I'm having a difficult time trying to remember the last time Google benevolently made a change to improve user privacy without trying to further entrench their status.

This doesn't seem fair to wholly categorize skepticism of Google's motives as an "ideological stance" if Google hasn't demonstrated any willingness to change.

Trust is like a mirror - you can break it and you can fix it, but you'll always see the cracks and wonder what the future holds.

"This is all so shady, and very un-Google like"

Since when has shady been un-google like? they ditched "Don't do evil" decades ago.

They are definitely acting in far more ethically concerning ways than they used to, but as for literally ditching the phrase “don’t be evil”, most of the internet conventional wisdom on that is incorrect.

When they reorganized to have Alphabet as a new parent company, Alphabet’s code of conduct said “do the right thing”, but the subsidiary Google that still makes everything we usually discuss as Google kept “don’t be evil” in its code of conduct. At a later point Google did move that sentence out of of the most prominent position in the preamble, but it’s now in the second-most prominent place, right at the end.

But, yes, as I said at the start of this comment, they do a lot more awful or potentially evil things than they used to.

Disclosure: I worked for Google years ago, but I left before all the changes I discuss in this comment and had nothing to do with any of them. I am sad to see Google decline to roughly the level of being at least as ethically good as most of their major competitors, instead of far better as they used to be.

I got a notification in browser of this change.

Really? Where? What did it look like?

On the first launch of a given profile I'm getting a modal pop-up window that says this:

> Enhanced ad privacy in Chrome [this is bold, centered, and larger font]

> We’re launching new privacy features that give you more choice over the ads you see.

> Chrome notes topics of interest based on your recent browsing history. Also, sites you visit can determine what you like. Later, sites can ask for this information to show you personalized ads. You can choose which topics and sites are used to show you ads.

> [a graphic]

> To measure the performance of an ad, limited types of data are shared between sites, such as the time of day an ad was shown to you.

> More about ads in Chrome [V]

> You can make changes in Chrome settings

> ["Settings" and "Got it" buttons]

Clicking the V-looking thingy next to "More about ads in Chrome" expands that to add this:

> More useful ads [that is in bold]

> Sites can ask Chrome for information to help personalize the ads you see.

> • Chrome notes topics of interest based on your recent browsing history.

> • Sites you visit can also determine what you like based on your activity on the site. For example, if you visit a site that sells long-distance running shoes, the site might decide that you’re interested in running marathons.

> Later, a site you visit can ask for this information — either your ad topics or ads suggested by sites you’ve visited.

> Chrome auto-deletes topics and sites that suggest ads within 30 days. Or you can block specific topics and sites you don’t like.

> Measuring how well an ad performs [that is in bold]

> Sites you visit can ask Chrome for information to help them measure the performance of their ads. Chrome lets sites collect limited types of data, such as the time of day an ad was shown to you.

> Learn more about how Google protects your data in our Privacy Policy.

It was a popup explaining it and a button that took you to the ad privacy settings.

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