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JohnBooty

After banging out code all day, I really really really pine for a physical trade like smithing.

My logical side tells me that after a few months of that I'd be pining for a "cushy desk job."

But man.

Doing something physical and tangible. You just don't get that very often in the tech world.

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I believe that having a side hobby like wood working makes you a better developer.

A key aspect of physical hobbies is that there is no backspace key.

If you've been working on a piece of wood for an hour, and you muck up and make a cut where it shouldn't be, or split the wood due to hand holding it on the router table instead of clamping to a jig, you're going to experience an unparalleled level of frustration.

After a while, by osmosis, you will develop a "measure twice and cut once" style of working that is more efficient (for wood working anyway).

I believe that attitude trickles into and benefits your coding. Of course you do have a backspace key, so it's not efficient to be measuring everything twice, but somehow that extra level of care pays off on the keyboard as well.

That's really interesting.

It somewhat flies directly opposite to one of my main attractions to coding and computing in general - there IS a backspace key, metaphorically and literally.

And yet, I dunno. I think I'm feeling what you're saying.

I guess smithing might be different again from wood working.

I get the impression that each hammer blow can only do a little bit, so perhaps you wouldn't wish for a backspace key for smithing.

I feel like Woodworking is mostly about removing material, while blacksmithing is a little less so? Disclaimer all my woodworking experience is from shop class in elementary and all blacksmithing is from YouTube.

Blacksmithing is mostly moving material around. If you fuck up, you can probably just move it back.

It's true for the code. But not always for the system that the code becomes, or for the consequences caused by outputs of the system. Examples: Not all database migrations in production are easily undoable without impacting service. Or if the output is used to make say financial decisions, money lost on that might not be recoverable. So at least a conscious relationship to these potentials is very advantageous when making changes. And also when designing a system, try to minimize the amount of actions that are not undoable without negative side effects. An also to build systems where one can roll forward to effectively undo a change (even if one does not / cannot technically go back).

Luckily, I trashed some unrecoverable production database data ~25 years ago as a rookie. Best thing I ever did.

One of the main downsides of coding and particularly working software development is that it is expected to be endlessly plastic. There are always other decisions you could have made. There's always a little voice saying you could go back and make it better. The anxiety of choice. Maybe you could rewrite it in a different language? Or with a different framework? Could we have it in cornflower blue?

With things like woodworking: to cut is to choose. You can't go back, so you've also cut away a huge part of the decision tree looming behind you.

Surely it's not quite such a big difference, especially as you included "could rewrite it in a different language?" - isn't throwing away the bit of wood you made the cut in to start on a new bit of wood pretty much identical to throwing away the code you wrote in language 1 to start again in language 2? In both cases the you make the decision to consider the work done initially as now waste, in both cases you might have learned from the experience to improve the next version enough that it was worth trashing the first? In both cases it could be a very minor thing (it was the first cut you made in a small, cheap bit of wood / you'd only built the first bit of a basic POC for a small and simple bit of software) or a massive decision (you've nearly finished building your boat or program, and decide a mistake means you need to completely start from scratch).

I suppose the biggest difference is that thanks to the backspace key most mind-changing in development doesn't have to be as major as rewriting in a new language, you so always have the option to undo the last cut rather than throw it away to start again. So maybe my argument is less against there being a significant difference and more against "rewriting in a new language" being a relevant example.

> A key aspect of physical hobbies is that there is no backspace key.

Getting a hobby lathe has taught me this VERY well. Something about running a machine that removes a lot of metal very quickly but where your end goal is to be precise to 0.05mm makes you really double check your next move. Bumping a hand wheel is enough to ruin hours or possibly days of work.

I find this perspective quite fitting and interesting, especially as a newcomer to wood working - Thank you for sharing

I had the same urge i.e. do something physical but something that was still technical in nature and you could use it as hobby income.

I bought a laundromat 5 years ago. Learned to fix mechanical issues, troubleshoot electrical issues. Learned to use tools to pull bearings out, using heat torches to remove worn out sleeves from a shaft, understanding how water valves, solenoids works. Learnt a lot.

While it is not as crazy as building something new, it is the closest I could get to with my software engineer career. My friends thought I was nuts.

Oh man, that's pretty cool. You still running it?

Although it sounds like my idea of hell personally (well not quite, but very much not something I can imagine enjoying at all), I love that you don't feel the same way and that it actually was a good choice for hobby / side gig.

Can I ask how it's been as a money maker? I'm curious whether it's a bit of extra change here and there as a nice side-benefit to all the learning it's given you, or if it actually pulls in decent profits? (And to contextualise the answer, in which country?)

Worked in warehouses for trucking as a kid. Sometimes I miss it... other times I remember that the warehouses were never climate controlled, the vans never had functional AC either, and my teenage sleep habits combined with that early commute were not a safe combination. There's a fun side, but imo its more of the "glad I got through it" than a "i want more of it." Maybe that's just me.

It's also a lot more bearable if you know it's not forever.

I worked in a restaurant as a kid/teen. It was a lot of fun, in a way, even though it was dirty and hard. Nasty dead-end jobs were kinda fun back then because we were kids and we had the luxury of being on the way "up" in life, or at least we assumed we were. We had college and/or careers ahead and weren't going to be busboys and dishwashers and grill cooks forever.

I felt like I'd be a dishwasher forever, that'd be tough. Not that there is anything wrong with washing dishes. I don't think that it is more or less dignified than being a fancy software engineer. But the money is crap and it's tough to have much of a life on dishwasher money.

I think the so-called "skilled trades" could be a different story. Plumbing or HVAC or whatever. Hard-ass work for sure. Always wonder how I would have fared.

The reality is that the happy medium is.. the happy medium. In an ideal world your job involves some amount of physical movement as well as rest time, going all in on either isn't ideal.

That said, the desk job is probably the better bargain of the two since you can always do your moving around outside of work hours, however you can't rest more to make up for overworking yourself physically.

That's why hobby farms have cropped up. Also, hobbies like car restoration, woodworking, etc.

Do it as a hobby. I just handmade a knife (using a preforged blank) using nothing but manual tools and it was a really pleasant experience.

Haha, yeah. I do physical stuff in my spare time. I build some things, I hike, I do sports.

That's really cool about the knife. Could see myself really digging that.

Could always do some robotics as a hobby if there's a group for that near you

As someone who has been doing robotics professionally for fifteen years.... robots are also mostly code. There is a certain tangibility to it, but unless you're just deploying an off-the-shelf stack like Ardupilot, you're going to end up spending 95% of your project time on it writing code and tweaking configuration files.

If you want a tactile hobby, actually build something— make some shelves for your basement or garage, put up a bike shed, make a deck, redo your kitchen floor, weld together a teardrop camper, dig up a tree stump, whatever.

Or if it can be physical without needing to be back-breaking, do partner dancing or an endurance sport like distance swimming or road cycling.

Yeah, I definitely have tangible and physical hobbies! I think what I might really be missing is a sense of meaning in my work.

In "physical" work there's an inherent satisfaction. You look at the pile of leaves you raked. You see the plate of food you prepared. You see the wall you built. Etc.

Code can be equally satisfying, but I think generally I need to be more in touch with the actual users to feel that satisfaction. In my last few roles I've been way too distant from users. Luckily in my next role I think I'm going to be able to remedy that.

I watched this: https://youtu.be/paCyA9ypEOE?si=IESpvZcyUzPeyt0x video about 10 years ago and it set me on a path to learn blacksmithing.

hobbies

try something out and do it for fun

I made a leather jacket in the last 7 months. I really like it. Welding, etc. Community college is fun when you're employed.

What about electronics?

Quite a lot of it is either coding in a different CAD app, or "closework" which tends to have you hunched up and peering at small things. And it's not very physical.

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