Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla
gizmodo.com
gizmodo.com
Nonetheless I’ve been in the market for a new car for months and haven’t bought because it’s hard to find any cars that meet my requirements (after all most companies primarily make trucks and shitty crossovers, not even cars). The two things that consistently hold me back are either things like this (crazy telemetry / touchscreens everywhere / half-ass safety tech) or insane dealer markups. I’ve pretty much figured out the new Toyota GR Corolla is the perfect car for my needs, but you can’t find them anywhere without a $25K+ dealer markup and many dealers won’t sell them to out of state residents.
It’s truly a crazy time in the new car markets and the used market isn’t really any better.
They’re not just prone to quick obsolescence, they’re dangerous.
It’s why things like the GR Corolla are nearly miraculous in 2023, it even comes stick shift only.
But... it is certainly satellite connected (you can manage locks, windows, etc. from your phone, as well as remote start). Wish it was included in this privacy investigation. I'd love to know more about what they do with what they know about our car and how we use it.
A couple of things I don't like is the pull switch for parking brake, it's the first car I've had without an old skool handbreak, it feels unnecessary, but ergonomically it's fine. Also it's a key less ignition with a button to start. Again I don't see why this benefits me, but I can deal with it. I do worry about having a smart key though as I'm often on the water kayaking/surfing but it's been ok in a waterproof case so far.
Meanwhile the expensive cars are frightening to drive as you need to look away from the road to do anything.
Buttons: all car controls, audio volume and selection, temperature.
Touchscreen: GPS, setting radio presets, changing climate mode.
Now, it's not perfect -- there are some climate options I'd like on buttons. But in general that's pretty good.
The big flaw is the lack of upgradeability. It felt a decade old, stylistically, when it was new, and it will never get newer. You can't even pop in a new car stereo to replace the whole thing anymore - and it's a massive chunk of the dash. And has no support for Android Auto.
Call, talk, text, maps, etc.
How is it any more dangerous than how a typical person uses their phone today while driving?
For safety: all common systems are accessible on most steering wheels (e.g. radio, etc) so that your hands never have to leave the steering wheel.
Instead they have somehow rationalized that a control wheel and featureless buttons down in the center console are safer for people to use while the vehicle is active.
It's idiotic.
The i3 has been discontinued and the new models have a touch screen in addition to the jog wheel, so it's possible the jog wheel on those is poorly implemented, and not enough to actually use the car.
I haven't test driven one of the newer models, but I'd carefully check the computer UI before purchasing one.
Anyway, I'm hoping BMW succeeds with their contrarian approach of having physical controls, and not treating their customers terribly, and that the other manufacturers follow their lead.
> No demonstrations of economic illiteracy. No negativity regarding markups. You are encouraged to post about current prices and markups and your dealership experiences, but please DO NOT express moral value judgments about markups or their absence (except those involving bait-and-switch).
2023 Toyota GR Corolla AWD
3285 LBS / 300 HP = 10.9 LBS / HP
RANGE: 25 mpg * 13.2 gallons = 330 mi
PRICE: 44k
--------------------------------------------------
2012 VW MK6 GTI (K04) FWD
3000 LBS / 330 WHP = 9.1 LBS / WHP
RANGE: 23 mpg * 14.5 gallons = 333 mi
PRICE: < 30k (to buy a used GTI and install the same mods including labor)
--------------------------------------------------
I think the GR Corolla is great, but even after 11 years it's sadly not really a convincing upgrade for me. The GR Corolla is less powerful (in both torque and horsepower), it has one less cylinder and less displacement, it weighs more, it gets essentially the same mileage and has the same range, and it costs much more. The Corolla does have AWD though.
Here's the common "upgrade" for me:
2023 VW Golf R AWD
3400 LBS / 315 HP = 10.8 LBS / HP
RANGE: 28 mpg * 14.5 gallons = 406 mi
PRICE: 47k
--------------------------------------------------
Again, the Golf R is also great, but it's also less powerful and weighs more. It gets slightly better mileage than my current car, but costs even more than the GR Corolla.
Finding something new that is "better" out of the box than my 11 year old GTI would cost me at least 56k (Toyota GR Supra RWD) or if I want AWD then it's more like 66k (Audi RS3 AWD). If I want something electric and "better" then it's at least 89k (Tesla Model S). These prices are really high to begin with; when you add in dealer markups they become insane propositions. For your money you'll also have to contend with with touch screens, capacitive buttons, and a bunch of other tech that you don't want or need. The market seems to be in a pretty sad state for car guys. Unless something changes I'll be rebuilding my engine with forged internals and continuing to drive my GTI.
It feels impossibly hard to buy a great car today.
No, Teslas have a specific safety rating.
In the Luxury Sedan segment with the same safety rating are 13 other vehicles.
In the Luxury SUV segment there are 19.
“In a high safety class” is accurate, but there’s nothing in those ratings to say the Tesla is the safest of them.
remember, the dark pattern of this is to raise the price, then discount for access.
So if you are getting your rates tripled, then you were being subsidized by safer drivers before, which seems like something that should be fixed.
Dash cams have already probably given insurers a better idea on who is a riskier driver and who is not since collisions can now be more accurately attributed to the at fault party.
I don't particularly like it, but it's something I'll just have to live with.
I haven't dug too much into the methodology, but it seems like it's done based on privacy policies rather than actually looking into the car telemetry traffic. It's also written in a very caaual and sensationalist "omagad" tone that doesn't serve well the seriousness of the topic or findings
analytics.tiktok.com
sp.analytics.yahoo.com
googletagmanger.com
universal.iperceptions.com
cdn4.userzoom.com
snap.licdn.com
secure-ds.serving-sys.com
bat.bing.com
ct.pinterest.com
adherent.com
And a few others. I would guess the phone app (which has access to the car location) has a similar list of trackers. I hope to get some time to MITM the app to be able to know for sure.
I'm never surprised by the web trackers (which my ad blocker generally filters too), but 3rd-party trackers called from devices/vehicles seems more insidious.
Although the car / IoT companies can just as easily outsource the data once they have it anyway.
I read the original article and conspicuously absent is the actual mechanism of the data collection that is occurring here. Some of the claims seem barely believable.
Is data exfiltrated from the phone, via some kind of data access loophole in Android Auto / Car Play? Are the microphones in vehicles actively listening to conversations and shipping them off for analysis? Or is this all purely hypothetical (i.e., they say they have the right to use it, so clearly they must be trying to acquire it...)?
The only techniques I can imagine that might lead to collection of data such as sexual activity are truly egregious indeed, and although I have incredibly low trust in auto makers such techniques seem like a bridge too far, even for them.
All data that they can acquire will be acquired because data can be sold, leading to higher quarterly profits. There are almost no other considerations.
It astounds me that there aren't more people interested in cutting off the constant telemetry and to be honest it wouldn't surprise me if the car refuses to operate correctly when I do figure out where it's at and pull it.
I know of a car (Renault in EU) whose SIM access is broken somehow that still works fine, just can't call home. No guarantee that every car will handle it gracefully, but at least some regions don't seem to mandate any enforcement if that module happens to "break".
EG if the cell tower was very close.
Was fine after I used a resistor to turn that power into mild heat.
FWIW I've got no actual experience, but given the general slowness with which the car industry moves I would guess the cell modem is just a module hanging off one of the CAN buses, receiving telemetry broadcast by other modules and injecting/interrogating commands when requested (like modern OBD2 ports). I suppose it could also be part of something like the gauge cluster that links different buses as well (at least on Hondas) but with the modular way cars seem to work I'd guess it's not likely.
I'd try to track down a copy of the factory service manual for your model. Those have seem to have gotten pretty thin these days too in favor of computer-based documentation, but it should at least help you work out how things are generally connected. (No point to the readily-available Haynes manual though. Those are apparently garbage)
Could use an SDR or emf reader. It'll take a while since you need to catch a cellular keep alive but otherwise should be fine.
I have a 2019 Grand Cherokee and I think we both have the updated head unit. Let me know if anything works.
[1] https://www.jeepgarage.org/threads/uaq-antenna-connections.2...
not strapping on tin foil hat, this likely isn’t some massive coordinated effort. it could be done “better.”
this is just making the most of the situation. at scale.
if you simplify the question, “Who wants to let their car manufacturer surveil them?” - the answer is also simple. very few hands are going to be raised.
most people don’t get the tl;dr - they drown in the firehose.
what isn’t out there is a friendly, accessible version of what you’re looking for - multi-manufacturer information on snipping the sensors, why and how, and what you lose in the exchange. if it is out there, it isn’t friendly enough to be readily found.
By comparison if your seat belts are all frayed and you don’t wear them anyway that’s on you, manufacturer sold you a car with seat belts in good condition and that as far as the “compliance” requirement goes.
> the manufacturer collects information including sexual activity, health diagnosis data, and genetic data, though there’s no details about how exactly that data is gathered
How is that even possible? Without more details about what this means and how it's done, this sounds a bit fishy to me.
> Mozilla said it was unable to determine whether the brands encrypt any of the data they collect
Given the auto industry's track record at security, I'm gonna go ahead and assume they _all_ store all that in a 2005-era non updated mysql database protected by root/password exported nightly as a clear-text csv file to an open network folder. And since they all do it they can call it an industry standard.
> Berg said the MercedesMe Connect app gives users privacy settings and the ability to opt-out of certain services.
Given that these folks try to sell you everything in the car you already bought as a service, that's a nice way of saying "if you're concerned about us collecting stool sample while using rated seats, you can use your car as a decorative piece in your garage if you want,l".
Yesterday, you visited a dating site a bunch. Today, you drove to a house that wasn’t yours and the passenger side door opened. Then you drove to a restaurant and the passenger side door opened again. Then you drove back to the house you don’t live at and the car was there overnight.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sens...
they have interior cameras too, above the rearview mirror.
The article seems to be based on a review of the privacy policies rather than sniffing actual collected data. We can conclude the policy leaves openings for them to do it, but it may not in fact be done at this time.
"How is this possible" re:
> collects information including sexual activity, health diagnosis data, and genetic data
> Sources for collection: Direct contact with users and Nissan employees.
Also:
> by occupying a vehicle that is utilizing such services you agree to Nissan collecting and using the information
> You promise to educate and inform all users and occupants of your Vehicle
Interesting Note: I think this implies if you are a Uber / Lyft / ect... customer you consent to Nissan collecting your sex activity and genetic information and all related secondary analyses by occupying the vehicle.
Did you visit some explicit site without VPN (or at least a private tab)? Bingo. The data brokers will correlate you. Once your data can be correlated, whatever they gather is thrown into the pool. I'll bet that there's some back-scratching going on somewhere. Hey we know all about where John is at when he's driving, and we'll sell/give you that data and in exchange we'd like to buy/trade some ads on those other sites-of-interest he/she goes to.
When everything becomes in the end connected with the Internet, everything is dependent... A system crash of AWS, Google, or any other monolithic provider will have drastic results. A system crash could halt many cars in a country. In the future Hackers could stall entire country transportation.
With oligopoly,monopoly the power player can decide with very granular precision what you can, and cannot do, where you can go. You have no power to object. Even government bodies could be against you, or could be too small to fight big corporations.
More
- cameras in cars. What they will detect? If I am drunk, or something more? Will there be glitches to record more stuff? Will the cars have back doors for governments?
- what kind of data will cars collect? Audio? Video? Biometrics? Facial data? Hate speech?
- they can analyze where you go, why you do something, maybe for analytics, for governments, or for ad business
- they can define terms of conditions, which of course can allow the producers to sell your data to third parties for cheaper models of cars
At first you will be able to mitigate. You will be able to buy older cards. Eventually we will not be able to choose a different life. There is no really opt out if everybody implements techno-feudalistic software patterns.
I have bad news for you: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html
The more would be if you are watching your phone, in 99% of cases.
It's as if the engineering team didn't want to develop a spying product and made a convenient way to disable it...
Don't forget Toyota was the manufacturer that was going to charge a monthly subscription just for the key fob (!) to work until they got a massive backlash over it. A freaking key fob that doesn't use cellular or the cloud at all - it's 100% local between the fob and the car. And don't think for one minute that they won't try to sneak it back in.
I was just thinking about how to find and disable all the microphones in a car and realized that, with software, any speaker can be used as a microphone, so the logical conclusion is that you'd have to disable all the speakers as well.
Well, hello there, zone ECU!
In the process you may lose some functionality like some speakers, the radio, wireless android auto, microphone, etc.
Like in Spain (through rules ultimately coming from Europe) there is a class of vehicles which are gradually being kicked out (banned from crossing certain very ample boundaries around the city): gasoline cars made before 2001, and diesel powered cars made before 2006.
For example, your 23 year old Toyota 4Runner would be deemed too polluting (or noisy, or both) to drive near the city center and auxiliary accesses of Madrid, and starting from 2025 it will be outright banned from driving on any part of the city, with a circle area of ~23 Km (14 miles) diameter from the center.
A reminder that driving isn’t a right, it’s a privilege that you have to get a license to do, and many other places that aren’t America don’t design their cities and even their small towns [1] around the idea that you must own a vehicle.
Congestion taxes and pollution rules tend to affect city centers where personal vehicle ownership is unnecessary and even something that could be considered detrimental to society as a whole.
I didn’t agree to die early due to elevated pollution levels in my city just so you can drive your truck around downtown.
Approximately half of all global oil use is associated with roadways. Maybe draining the world’s oil is a solid plan for the oil states and geopolitically massive superpowers of the world, but many countries have to import all of their oil, so owning a 19mpg Toyota 4Runner in a country like Spain is arguably a national security issue.
My 2001 Tundra is a spy-free, comfortable and versatile life/work vehicle that works as well in the city as it does hauling logs and steel on my property. I have three school age kids and prefer my truck to a Van (I've owned one in the past too) any-day.
Anything made after about 2015 feels WAY over-engineered, for my tastes at least.
Don't get me wrong, I drive an '01 Ranger that is more rust than steel at this point, but it is still good to know what you have.
Bought my 2000 SR5 in 09 and it’s gone way up in value since then.
Have had 3 random people ask me over the last few years how much I’d take for it and the answer is always “not for sale.”
The above quote was 100% true just a few years ago but it appears to be vanishing in speed light as the tech advances and the race to collect private data reaches its peak.
I’m afraid we will have to check the “I Agree to Terms and Conditions” in our new cars and before even leaving the dealership parking or getting the usual message: “Hey there, we’re updating our terms and conditions, accept to unlock your car”
I’m afraid that once we reach fully-autonomous driving, Ads will start showing up in the car’s digital cockpit and/or head-up display.. probably, based on your current location, mood, the radio station you’re currently listening to.. you name it..
What a time you might not want to live to see!
The solutions will probably have to advance. I assume the first stage will be just unplugging the telematics ECU (Electronic Control Unit). Then the automakers will get wise, and punish the driver if that ECU is offline (reduce/remove some unrelated features). Then we'll have to make hardware that plugs into the telematics and gps antenna connectors that acts like a man in middle to ensure only the minimum (and possibly fake) data is received by the ECU. Then they'll probably add something that calls home every so often and requires a valid response to know everything is ok... etc.
(It has gradually occurred to me that without the safeguards of privacy ingrained in western societies, the state of ad tech in China has already surpassed the U.S. and Europe in its sophistication.)
It's very difficult to show monetary damages in order to actually sue
That said, because I don't know much about cars, I don't know if the car is even capable of phoning home or by what means. Is it a 4G signal? Just a radio transponder? How do I even investigate without tearing my dash apart?
Older cars also collect information. Most dealers read out the nav computer drive at service intervals so they also know where you've been, who you called etc, only a bit later.
Now I'm wondering if any car stereos have four-pin aux inputs to send headset button inputs or microphone audio back to the phone.
Unless there's something wild going on with XM, or there's a WiFi backdoor, the only other way the car is getting data out is over OBD2. And that's all engine, tires, and performance stuff: https://www.amazon.com/Turbo3-Leaf-Spy-Pro/dp/B00PMLTPN0/?ta...
Edit: OH. Looks like there's Over-the-air updates on some models. https://www.nissanusa.com/connect/features-apps/over-the-air...
> The wireless features in your vehicle, including Over the Air Updates require use of your in-vehicle modem (if equipped). While Over the Air Updates are being made, some other wireless features may be unavailable or may require a wired connection. Please see FAQs for additional information.
But I bought that car because its something for me to tinker with and I plan to replace that proprietary head until with an after one. And also use an Arduino 4 inch LCD to tap into the Can bus to show Hvac settings.
No android auto required.
1. No data harvesting
2. If I or anyone discovers any kind of data harvesting, at any time, I get a full refund of the original purchase price plus interest plus 2000 USD from the manufacture. If not received in 6 months, it double ever 6 months.
But from what I understand, I heard due to Massachusetts "Right to Repair", all of that is turned off.
But time for the Federal Gov to step in. I expect they will since some Congress Critter will complain about the Auto Industry tracking them or their children. Or, more then likely, due to how the US Gov have been operating for the last 30 years or so, Congress people will get to purchase "special" vehicles.
Otherwise, I'd guess it'll be "whatever it costs" vehicles aimed at the uber-rich, and their personal security details.
It may be a niche thing in future, but certainly something that would be appealing to me as a consumer.
PS: I understand we're talking about the future here, just wanted to clarify that paying a premium for less telemetry is already here and not a hypothetical case.
In order to bring a new car brand to the market, it literally takes the resources of a narcissistic billionaire, and even those are much more like upper-middle class status symbols than affordable conveyance for everyone. The regulatory hill is a steep climb on its own and the incumbents have a literal 100-year head start on how to sell cars to normal people.
Even if we just look at the tech sector... where are the privacy-preserving cell phones? There are none, unless you are willing to do not much else on it other than phone calls, text messages, and very light web browsing.
> Even if we just look at the tech sector... where are the privacy-preserving cell phones?
PinePhone?
The only viable option is to get a used dumbcar and rip out the existing head unit.
What I meant is kind of just a regular brand that offers you a regular car with convenience features, but no telemetry/services involved. All local and offline - that's the catch for them, because what brands want is to monetize services...
The Oscar.
We bought a new car and signed the purchase agreement. Nowhere was there anything resembling a software license. Some months later, the display has a pop-up "our terms and conditions have changed". Um...which terms would those be, and when did we ever agree to them? Anyway, how can they make a one-sided change to a contract?
"Fun" right?
My take is simple:
- all cars can be connected BUT the connection must be user controllable, meaning the car must run on FLOSS easily installable by the formal owner;
- all cars can offer remote controls BUT in a classic ssh-alike fashion, meaning it's ok to have a web(cr)app for end users, but not proxyed by the OEM only. OEM might act as a proxy to circumvent NAT, but the user is free to choose a DynDNS and other P2P/distributed solution hosted alone.
In mere privacy IMVHO my car can snoop videos of me/anything surrounding / capture audio no more and no less than an Android or iOS macrospy also know as smartphones. So I'm equally concerned BUT so far such smart devices can't potentially lock me outside in the middle of anything, making me crash on some people and than state I'm a terrorist crushing on purpose and so on. Witch limit much the risk surface.
Is this just a good lawsuit away from being thrown out but no one has done it? Is there some particularly fucked up legal precedent that makes this tenuously legally stable?
Similarly, how is this kosher? Do we think anyone, even a single person, has ever followed through on this promise they’ve apparently agreed to in using a Nissan?
https://cybershow.uk/media/episodes/watchers_2023-07-01.mp3
It is, to all moral (if not legal) purposes, covert and certainly illegal in the UK on all sorts of grounds that have yet to be challenged in court.
The work is in getting the message out to people.
Yes, it’s bad that it’s a mystery and it’s bad that consumers have little control over it. We need more comprehensive national privacy laws.
this is ironic; my wife bought a brand new 2020 model year Nissan 370Z 50th anniversary edition in 2021, and it feels like it is from the late 90s.
no touch screen (actually no screen at all!), no GPS/navigation, no tracking, no Bluetooth audio streaming(!!) it does have mobile phone Bluetooth connectivity and a terrible backup camera but those are the only bits of modern in-car tech it has.
it feels like a very analog modern sports car without any of the crap that most modern sports cars have.
more of this please!
sadly, seems like the new Z coupe went all-in on the in-car tech, much like Nissan's other offerings.
the backup camera shows up on the rear-view mirror, taking up about ~40% of the width. it's really the jankiest thing and is shockingly bad for a 2020/2021 car!
(edited for clarity)
I'm sure onboard cell modems can be used to triangulate well enough, but just knowing that my car likes to hitch a ride on my phone's sensors has creeped me out forever. I'll definitely be looking for an old beater car as my second when the time comes.
>Eighty-four percent of the reviewed car brands share personal user data with service providers, data brokers, and potentially sketchy businesses, according to the report, with 76 percent claiming the right to sell that personal data.
>Tesla was the worst-ranked brand in the study, getting flagged in every privacy category — only the second time this happened.
>Alongside the report, Mozilla also published a breakdown explaining how car companies collect and share user data. This can include anything from the user’s name, address, phone number, and email address to more intimate data like photos, calendar information, and even details on the driver’s race, genetic information, and immigration status. Mozilla says it also couldn’t confirm that any of the automakers could meet the organization’s minimum security standards regarding data encryption and protection against theft. In fact, it claims dating apps and even sex toys typically provide more detailed security information about their products than cars.
Federal law requires the manufacturers get your up to date mail address for recall purposes.
Legislators make sure that the agencies sell that data (this is the source of those "we've been trying to reach you about your vehicle's warranty" letters/calls). Sometimes they interfere to ensure that their buddies/lobbyists don't pay for it.
If I had more time I would use their free return address to ship boxes of broken bricks.
Features vary widely among models, of course (as the owner's manual says repeatedly).
I would like to have privacy from corporations, but I really wish we'd keep the focus on privacy from our governments, since they have such ultimate power over us.
Stopping government tracking starts with stopping private industry tracking, as the latter is happy to give it away/sell the data or can be forced to by law.
Yes, of course data that goes to the corporations gets scooped up by the government.
But we need to stay laser focused on the main goal of maintaining privacy from our government, which may include efforts at privacy from corporations.
Also, corporations have all sorts of power over us that should be reserved for the government. For instance, they control electronic currency, freedom of association (online), and your ability to distributed and purchase most media.
The government has been able to use onstar to deactivate GMC vehicles at will for over a decade. Of course, GM can do this too.
It won't get traction for the average person because the immediate effects are positive (lower insurance) and the dangers are very theoretical (a bad actor knowing where my car is). People are much more concerned about the near and present danger of bad actors hacking their financial accounts and stealing they hard-earned money.
Please tell me this is lawyer CYA boilerplate, or is there a way for the shocks to tell "if this van's a rockin', don't come a knockin'".
Most of the parts for a pre-computerised car can be made in a decent machine shop. The computers and software for newer cars are a huge contrast from that.
In case you were curious about one of the faces behind the tech stacks that specialize in data exfiltration w.r.t your care. They pitch as being the source of info for the actuaries of auto insurers. Interviewed for them once, and even though the offer didn't materialize, I crossed them off my list of people I'd work with after putting in some time reading up on their offerings and thinking on what you could make out of them.
Do I understand this correctly? So all my conversations in a modern car potentially ARE actually being recorded and sent to be indexed and used against me later? Or to sell me stuff based on what I said in the car?
Is this like when ISPs sell my data?
I just bought a Kia Niro. So I read the articles on Kia and Hyundai (Kia controller) and couldn't find any "tests" on them.
Most of it is just "the privacy policy says this and that" and "they may collect this and that".
Not saying I am not concerned. But I'd prefer a lot less fear mongering and more hard evidence.
Like my TV, will keep my car of the internet, then.
It's not just that I would not expect my car to know about these things, it's that I cannot imagine how my car could possibly know these things. Immigration status? Sexual activity? WTF? How?
That isn’t a joke btw. For example women are far more susceptible to advertising based on their menstrual cycle. Gad Saad, of all people, wrote a very serious book about basically that.
https://foundation.mozilla.org/fr/privacynotincluded/article...
I know this is not ideal, but personally I’ve never connected my phone to the car and I’ve managed. So maybe that’s what I’ll need to keep doing.
Also, can I not control this via iOS permissions?
I recently got a 2023 Corolla, and it's fantastic:
* Android Auto gives me a great GPS to navigate anywhere, anytime. It watches out for traffic, accidents, speed traps, etc. and keeps me informed and on the fastest route
* I can have my phone's whole music library to listen to instead of fiddling with another copy on a USB stick that I'd have to keep in sync
* Automatic headlights and brights
* Automatic climate control (no more adjusting!)
* Amazing MPG (I can get 48 on the highway)
* Tire pressure sensors
* Automatic parking brake so I don't accidentally ruin the transmission
* Automatic lane centering and adaptive cruise makes hour long drives effortless. It's even great in the city.
* All the safety features like brake assist, pedestrian detection, etc. It hasn't saved me from an accident yet, and hopefully won't need to - but it's great to know that it's there
I basically never need to touch the screen except when initially setting up my route. Everything else is on the wheel or sticks.
Seriously. Cars have never been better.
Yes, if you're an enthusiast who wants a fun, sporty and unique car you're eating expensive scraps at the moment. But for MOST people, it's never been better.
I'm sure everybody here enjoys most modern car features you've listed. They just don't like being spied on.
Well, it seems like market forces do not work for minorities.
I’m just wondering about the safety.
I think its just a matter of time before someone buys a new car that does this and takes the manufacturer to the EU courts. The argument that concent is given when you buy/use the car will not hold up for one second.
Car manufactors will have to allow you to use the car without collecting anything.
While we were at a different dealership I get an unexpected phone call. It was the sales rep at the first dealership, who I had never met before, and had certainly not given my phone number. I asked him how in the fucking hell he even knew my name, let alone my phone number, and he explained that the rep that sold us our vehicle in 2018 recognized me. I told him that was a very creepy and off-putting experience, that I do not consent to unsolicited phone calls from them, especially in such a creepy situation, and that I won't ever be purchasing another vehicle from them.
My new CPAP machine has a 4G modem and it shares all my sleep data with the company. There’s some people at the local office who can tell precisely when I’m asleep and how asleep I am.
Could you possibly want any better data for when to rob someone?
I’ve put the thing in airplane mode and they called saying they can’t get the data needed for the first month, required for insurance purposes. Nope. My last machine had an SD card. How about you do that instead?
I do have sleep apnea disorder but probably a mild one as I don't feel exhausted at all. Reading your comment sparked the idea that it might be a good idea to verify the severity. If there will be any CPAP machine involved I will for sure think of its privacy impact.
You can't say: X and Y can milk this, but Z and W cannot. Everybody will want to get a piece of action from such a lucrative scheme.
In turn once the managing elites of all these formerly non-tech sectors that get increasingly digitized (mobility, finance, insurance, health etc) get satisfied that their legal / reputation risk is manageable they will invest further in this direction and lobby hard to preserve their investment value against "intrusive and innovation limiting regulation".
It all follows logically and it is a dystopic downward spiral that has no bottom.
It is totally doable for the government to regulate social media differently from automobiles--it's happening right now!
I'm looking at getting a new truck after driving an old wrangler without infotainment or even power windows, and part of that is looking for aftermarket services to disable most of this distracting and dangerous crap. Maybe that's going to be my next product play.
Are there state security issues with Chinese cars too?
"I'm tired of Mozilla's agenda and politics!! They should only make a web browser!!"