Comment by EatingWithForks | Hacker News Reader

Comment by EatingWithForks | Hacker News Reader

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EatingWithForks

I am describing the basic experience of having ADHD.

ADHD is described as having difficulty with:

* paying attention

* listening closely

* following instructions

* organizing tasks in the workplace

* keeping track of physical objects

These are all things you need to do in a metal and woodshop!

Have you never sat down and talked to someone with ADHD describe their basic experiences? I know people with ADHD who literally need all of their things hung up on display on a wall or else they lose them. There is an extremely popular guide for organizing with ADHD that recommends tearing cabinet doors off cabinets because it's impossible to remember where things are once put away.

Here's a popular podcaster talking about having ADHD and needing accommodations, and goes deeply into his experiences with having ADHD and struggling to, for example, go to work on time because there are too many tasks to keep track of to go to work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToBxaBauF4M

Yep, it’s essentially an executive function disorder at its core. ADD/ADHD has always been a misnomer.

However, there is broad disagreement among professionals about the definition of Executive Function.

Perhaps the most respected clinical researchers/professors on the subject Dr. Russel A Barkley, devotes a sizable chunk of his book to the many contradictory definitions that exist in scientific lit.

https://www.guilford.com/books/Executive-Functions/Russell-B...

I bring this up to let space for discussion back into the topic. We shouldn't pretend like we have a full definition of ADHD or Executive Function Disorder. There are some aspects that receive wide agreement, a lot of pet theory unproven hypothesis being pushed around, and even more folklore disguised through scientific jargon.

> Have you never sat down and talked to someone with ADHD describe their basic experiences?

My answer to this is the same as 99% of peoples answer: no.

Tbh that sounds like a lack of initiative on your part. Hearing out people's basic experiences is a good way to socially engage with people

Whatever you're doing now is not a good way to socially engage anyway.

Genuinely asking: Why are you asking for a source, and describing the depiction of a neurodevelopmental disorder as extreme, if you yourself seem to have very limited knowledge about the condition? What is your background of knowledge you are trying to use to measure something described as a disorder as extreme or not?

Genuinely responding: Because it sounds extreme? You painted a picture of someone who is incompetent ("not being able to keep track of each tool being used, or the order in which to use them") and a danger to themselves and those around them ("they may be incredibly dangerous in a woodshop or metalshop" and "forgetting to unplug dangerous equipment"). That seems extreme to me, hence why I said "they seem extreme".

I have been in the company of people with ADHD at various stages throughout my life and this depiction doesn't fully align with my personal observations. From what I've experienced, individuals with ADHD do face challenges, but they are not universally incompetent or dangerous. They may struggle in some areas but excel in others. My ask for a source was to understand if this portrayal was based on a study or evidence, or if it was a personal observation.

I think you misunderstood my depiction as saying all ADHD people are universally incompetent or dangerous. I'm saying that forcing untreated, unaddressed, undiagnosed ADHD people in a metalshop and getting them to work with dangerous machinery instead of treatment is uniquely dangerous given how we know ADHD functions.

I also am shocked that you have apparently been in company of people with ADHD and you've never considered asking them how they experience their disorder. I mean, at minimum, it's important to ask how to accommodate them or if they'd like you to be considerate of anything in particular with respect to their disability. Can you explain how do you handle people who are in your circle and clearly have different positions than you do-- do you never ask them questions?

In your reply you said "I am describing the basic experience of having ADHD" so I don't think I have misunderstood you.

I can't continue this conversation as you are not commenting in good faith. You're "shocked" that I've never asked someone with ADHD to describe their condition? As I have already said, that puts me in the Most People camp.

People have different comfort levels with discussing their conditions and I have no reason to ask them. Just like I have never asked a wheelchair user any questions about them using a wheelchair.

NGL I'm shocked you never asked a wheelchair user about their experiences using a wheelchair. I'm quite surprised because, like, I have plenty of disabled friends and honest conversations on how to accommodate them are quite normal in my circles, especially when covid first started and even now as some friends are more vulnerable to covid than others. How do you accommodate your disabled friends if you never talk to them about what accommodations they need?

edited to add: I'm genuinely asking and have continued to behave in good faith. I have no idea what makes you think I'm not. You seem to be repeatedly misunderstanding my position which is weird: I'm shocked you have 1) interacted with disabled people in your life; 2) apparently never ask about their experiences or accommodations! I don't think that's at all in a "most people" camp.

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