BMW: Gasoline Car Ban Poses “Imminent Risk” to European Automakers
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And the stakes now are oh so much higher.
Point is, the politicians can set some year because that gets them votes, but as has been predicted and is playing out, things are very behind schedule and won't make the dealline
i forget the corporation, but i recall an ad depicting a CEO, telling the team "were not in the oil business were in the energy business"
likewise, --were not in the ICE automotive business, were in the private transportation business-- sounds parallel.
So what. It's time to move, not wait around indefinitely for some perfect time to switch. Even if there wasn't a single public EV charger in all of Europe, it would still be time to ban gasoline cars.
EDIT: Wow, HN really loves burning gasoline. My kids are in a LOT of trouble. My city, which is farther North than Toronto, Canada, just hit 116f a couple years ago, and now reliably spends at least a week with highs above 100. If you guys can't even imagine another way to get around, things may be hopeless. People spend so much effort to defend wasting their lives stuck in traffic.
Besides, beginning to not sell gas cars five years from now isn't exactly "leaving most of society behind". Used gas cars will be available for decades even in that scenario, which is what most people buy anyway. But we can't even agree to do that piddling half-measure because I suspect you are right; we'll piss off the Nazis, and they vote.
https://www.wxyz.com/news/chevrolet-announces-bolt-ev-will-r...
But I really hate this tendency to overly micro-manage the economy.
Yes, gasoline cars pollute, but then the solution is to price a mitigation of that pollution into gasoline, even if than means it'll cost 20€/liter.
It's not to ban one particular category of devices that happens to use gasoline by some arbitrary date.
It's especially stupid because out of all the users of gasoline, cars are some of the "cleanest" due to emissions regulations.
It's not a problem that you want to release a ton of CO^2, if scrubbing and permanently sequestering a corresponding ton of CO^2 is included in the price.
Instead the EU wants to micro-manage the market, and only address some sources of pollution.
They're not banning gasoline engines in general, and notably doing nothing about non-automotive gasoline engines, which relatively speaking are much bigger polluters.
Now picture that the emissions causing the current climate upheaval were emitted decades ago. We're already way behind the curve. It's going to get worse already. Letting things get even worse in the future is a serious risk to everyone.
One way or another it will make life worse for everyone
But now we're super-cereal! Believe us this time guys. It will happen unless you buy products and services from ESG cult companies in my portfolio...
Extreme weather events: check. Even the US has had this. And Canada! Aren't you seeing how crazy the weather is becoming?
Global temperature rise: check, higher than predicted.
And remember these things are caused by the emissions from a few decades ago. The worst is still to come and we're already too late to reverse that. Climate change has a lot of inertia. Like Obama said, we're the first generation to feel the effects and the last who can do something about it.
What we do in 2035 will stop the trend in 2050 and later, not earlier. Extrapolate what's happening now till then..
i would think thats an intended feature crucial to the function.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/torrential-rain-follows...
I couldn't care less about BMW wining. They should start making tanks and APCs to sell to Ukraine and Eastern flank states if they're uncapable of building zero emission vehicles for civilian use.
40% exhibitors at the Munich motor show were Chinese companies, possibly showing off all electric models with chair heating that doesn't require a subscription.
Do you think we won't have extreme weather phenomenons anymore if BMW stopped selling ICE cars? Building an EV generates 1,7x as much CO2 as building an ICE car. And if we were to replace all ICE cars o the road with EVs, we would need the resources of 1,5x planet earths. And even if we had enough resources on this single planet, replacing all ICEs with EVs would complexly destroy the environment anyway in the process due to mining and CO2.
This isn't a BMW vs Tesla problem anymore, it's an Earth problem. If you were to shut down BMW tomorrow, the CO2 needle will not move.
Un-doing all the environmental damage requires more than switching from ICEs to EVs, it requires a complete overhaul of our consumerist societies, and a backtrack on our unsustainable standards of living.
Don't care if they build EVs or hydrogen burning ICE cars as long as I don't have to inhale smoke while tailing another vehicle or just walking or cycling along a busy road. If they converted current vehicles to burn H2 it would be even better.
That's not hypocritical, they're just saying it as it is. A failure of the european auto sector will mean waves of unemployment and a recession. It would be an economic disaster of biblic proportions of the Eurozone, regardless of the state of the environment. And voters and politicians first and foremost care abut having pensions, jobs to buy food and a roof over their head and will vote for that before the environment. It's a tragedy of the commons.
The big German automakers screwed the pooch on electrification, falling behind Tesla and China, but since they're too big to fail for the EU economy, are throwing the weight around to have things their way and they'll most likely get it.
>Don't care if they build EVs or hydrogen burning ICE cars as long as I don't have to inhale smoke while tailing another car or just walking along a busy road.
Ok, but what does the state of cars in your city have to do with Greece's extreme weather phenomenons? If you had EVs everywhere now in your neighbourhood, those phenomenons would still happen as pollution still continues. No matter what bs Elon said, switching to EVs, does not magically fix the planet. Manufacturing EVs is more environmentally damaging than ICEs. Most of the earth's environmental damage doesn't come form Avergae Joe driving to work in his BMW.
>If they converted current vehicles to burn H2 it would be equally awesome.
Are we just making up fantasy situations now?
I'm not sure that's how defense procurement and economics of the defense sector work in peace time(Germany is not at war), but it seems like you have it all figured out.
Gas cars will still be around long after 2035 this is why this is not actually very ambitious in terms of climate mitigation. And now BMW wants to weaken it further.
Have you seen how difficult it still is to buy some new cars, as in the waiting times? If you wait for 2034 to buy a new car, you'll never get it. I expect that by 2030, the backlog of orders will e full already till the end of production in 2035.
Especially here in Europe we're not so invested in gas guzzlers (and cars in general really depending on the country). Cars tend to be very compact, so much that American movies often make fun of them.
That's your bubble talking, the reality goes in the other direction.
Especially because more and more people have installed solar panels since the Ukraine war increased energy prices a lot. With that they can charge their cars for free.
In the Netherlands delivered electricity can right now be taken off the bill per kWh but in the future this will change, and during sun hours the delivered kWh won't be worth a lot. But using it for charging a car will still mean free fuel.
Yes, EV charging networks are far fewer. Today, in 2023. In 2035 the availability is going to be way better, and by 2040 (when "everyone" has an EV) it's going to be just as easy as gas. Because if it isn't, they'll have to slow things down or risk public outrage.
This will almost certainly flip by 2035. What will eventually phase out existing gas cars will be the gasoline-distribution infrastructure’s phase out. (We are already seeing this in Norway [1], where three quarters of gas stations have closed despite only ~15% EV fleet penetration.)
[1] http://www.nordiclabourjournal.org/i-fokus/in-focus-2021/the....
If something seems crazy or impossible, double check the facts.
Somehow non-German European car makers like Volvo have made great progress on their roadmaps to 100% electric by 2035.
Their most popular models are now no longer sold with 100% ICE, as an example.
German automakers bet the farm on Diesel a long time ago. And lost but didn't have the nerve to admit and switch.
Both leaders have now become followers in the industry.
And no, EV engineering being located in China is not what I'm hearing.