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Comment by Moggie100 | Hacker News Reader

The title here might be hyperbole, but if shutting down a channel would make the museum ‘die’ then they’re simply not preserving the data properly.

I’m not sure why folks seem to think that Youtube is a good place to archive anything - sure its a good distribution system, but time and time again we see that a handful of malicious actors can shut down entire channels with relative ease.

I would hope that these videos are backed up somewhere else on any of the many bulk cloud storage providers out there B2, AWS, Google cloud storage, etc. etc. etc. and could, with some effort be made available elsewhere than Youtube, or restored to the platform after the current storm dies down.

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A museum that nobody can access is just a warehouse.

True enough, but even physical museums have warehouses where the artefacts are safely preserved between viewings.

Analogies aside, I’m not against anyone using Youtube (or any other platform) for distribution - just that it absolutely should not be also used for your actual archive. There are much, much safer and better systems for that.

Replicate to preserve!

Those often support researchers and aren't just warehouses but it is a bit disappointing how much of the really neat stuff you can't see without special access. I really enjoy seeing rock and mineral collections and got a tour of the Royal Ontario Museum collection from a research collaborator when I was in Toronto and it was so cool to see.

On the other hand, is it that difficult to get special access? I'm sure every museum is different, along with the broad attitudes of the country, specialism etc. On a few occasions, I have been shown things by enthusiastic members staff that usually wouldn't be on display, so I suspect that with the right combination of genuine expertise, courtesy and patience nothing is impossible to view, regardless of current status or academic qualification.

Most museums display only a fraction of their holdings at any given time.

Because of limitations on physical space.

I think curation is inherently valued too.

And if the full collection is on display, more people can curate

Doesn't curation imply the full collection is not on display? I guess it depends on the definition you use.

In the digital preservation world, a 'display' is just a playlist on YouTube or a webpage surrounding specific recordings with extra information. In this context, it is certainly plausible to have several distinct 'curations' of the same artefacts being shown simultaneously.

Don’t think you’re understanding what curate means in this context

With a TV show, I would expect the curation to involve exhibits about it. Summaries, context, interviews, etc. The actual episodes should be easy to access and not in cold storage.

In the TV show case I think curation means highlighting notable content and grouping together similar content (for various definitions of similar). I suppose the algorithms attempt to do this but are generally bad compared to human curation. I agree that it makes no sense to have all content available underneath this curation though.

A museum acting as a warehouse is preserving the past for the future, when what they’ve archived can be made publicly available again.

Distributed p2p is a thing.

Nobody can prohibit the preservation, that is to say archiving, of copyrighted works. This right is protected by the law, at least in the US which is relevant here.

What is prohibited by law is distribution of copyrighted works. You need permission or an appropriate license from the rightsholders concerned to distribute or otherwise perform a copyrighted work in public.

It is nearly always the latter that a lot of these so-called "archives" trip over. Everyone, including Big Corp, is fine with having their copyrighted works preserved.

Obligatory IANAL.

Big Corp is absolutely not fine with having their work preserved. See for example the Disney Vault and the recent move to create modern adaptations rather than doing reruns of classics. They are terrified of their works entering public domain and want you to forget they ever existed at all and just pay your monthly streaming fee.

Preservation and archiving can be done regardless of copyright status. Disney wants to renew their copyright because they don't want their stuff distributed.

That's generally the case with most museums. Only a fraction have physical displays.

The idea is that the "stuff" is archived or stored properly which is much less of a burden. When it's desirable to do so public displays of it can be created.

Museum, often, are 90% warehouse.

The idea that museums should have exhibitions and be open to the public was a later development.

Quality deterioration is another. Youtube has certainly recoded archives many times. 10yo less viewed vids look like crap not necessarily because of the source material..

Exactly. The only thing you can trust The Google to do correctly is delete all your data.

If only.

this is a straw man. it's not just youtube that's within reach of sony's lawyers -- but your cloud, your isp, your basement server..

Youtube could reject Sony's copyright claims if they wanted, but they're pretending to be helpless bystanders. Don't play their game.

Sony could file an injunction if they wanted. Trying to defend the legality of hundreds of hours of variety TV is a Fair Use suicide mission, even if you've got Apple or Tesla lawyers. There's probably thousands of legally legitimate copyright claims to be made distributing footage like that. The value in defending it is marginal, especially for a business like YouTube.

> Don't play their game.

I don't think anyone wants to play their game. Alas, here we are rolling our dice again because hosted video platforms don't work without finding someone to host it.

Most people don't want to deal with data. So the idea that someone else will deal with the data is attractive to most people. It's as simple as that really. I used to work at a non-profit and we dealt with a lot of video and we spent a lot of time keeping that stuff organized and preventing data corruption.

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