Pad kaphrao contest seeks true taste of Thai dish
theguardian.com
theguardian.com
It's not that easy to replicate because of its main ingredient: holy basil. This is not normal basil or Thai basil. Holy basil is a specific kind of basil that tastes peppery and is not commonly available in the U.S. (but grows like weeds in Thailand).
It is an iconic dish in Thailand. When food vlogger Mark Wiens opened his first restaurant PhedMark, he choose to specialize in pad gaprao and nothing else because it was the national staple.
BEFRS review here:
Anyway! If you need a decent {ph,p}a{t,d} {k,g}ap{h}rao and are not in Thailand, I can warmly recommend Greyhound Cafe, which has branches in Singapore, Hong Kong, Manila and London: https://www.greyhoundcafe.co.th/
But really, are any of them “grapao” with the r on the first syllable? I always thought that was just a mistake we foreigners make because we don’t learn it as กะเพรา.
https://www.standard.co.uk/reveller/restaurants/greyhound-ca...
I'll die on this hill but ก as g is clearly a more accurate than k. Like, you wouldn't pronounce ไก่ as "kai" (ไข่/ไหค่/etc) it's so much more clear to say "gai(lowtone)".
Point being that even the official romanization sucks.
And your solution works for /k/ and /kh/, but runs into problems when you have a three-way contrast (/b/p/ph/ and /d/t/th). You can't write "buu" for "crab" just because you think it sounds like an English "b"; you need "b" for the actual /b/ sound.
I don't really think it matters, no one is consistent, no transliteration covers all cases. Unless maybe ipa? (which no one uses to communicate anyway).
But it's silly to say that it's the best system just because it is easiest for people like yourself.
I do think something IPA-inspired (k/kh, b/p/ph, d/t/th) is consistent and still usable. It will also encourage better pronunciation (at least for somewhat serious students) if they are trying to say the correct sound (unaspirated /k/) instead of approximating it with an English phoneme that isn't used in Thai (voiced /g/).
But I do think that an intuitive system is better than an IPA inspired system, and that's purely because of the fact that only 1% of people will be using it and understanding it. The other 99% will be using other, random, variations. However an intuitive system will at least catch most people who speaks English.
Any romanization that is more than "close enough" is a waste of time though, when compared to simply learning to write in Thai.
I would argue that since food names are usually pronounced by non-speakers who will be unfamiliar with the romanization (or often don’t even know which language it’s coming from), the latter sort of transliteration is more useful. Egg foo young, not egg fuyung, egg furong, or daan fuyung.
The consonant group in question is the "velar plosives", so-called because they are produced by the sudden release of air blocked behind the tongue and the velum. In English, this includes the k and g sounds.
There are two relevant modifiers that can be applied to consonant sounds: voice and aspiration. Voice is the vibration of the vocal chords. If you touch your throat, you will feel the difference between s and z. Aspiration is the "h-iness" of some sounds, where a short burst of breath is produced alongside the consonant.
In common English dialects, the k sound is unvoiced and aspirated, whereas the g is voiced and unaspirated. The two properties go hand in hand, so either can be used to distinguish the consonants. (0)
In Thai (as I understand it), there is an unvoiced and aspirated sound, and an unvoiced and unaspirated sound. So whether these two sounds are interpreted as k/g or two varieties of k (kh/k) is ultimately arbitrary.
Pinyin, the most common romanisation scheme for Standard Chinese, went down the "k/g" route. It sounds like RTGS goes down the "kh/k" route instead.
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(0) In actual speech, this apparently clean distinction is much more blurry for a variety of reasons, but it's a good enough approximation for this purpose. For the interested you can Google "fortis and lenis".
Thank you.
ETA: Wikipedia says this: "Between pairs of stops or affricates having the same place of articulation and manner of articulation, the primary distinction is not voiced vs. voiceless (as in French or Russian), but unaspirated vs. aspirated (as in Scottish Gaelic or Icelandic)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Chinese_phonology#Con...
( And apparently this practice has roots from the even older transliteration of Phi )
Otherwise, Amazon has seeds to grow your own, so if you like phad ka prow (which I do), this is not on the same level as world peace.
If there's a will, there's a way of course, but lack of easy sourcing means friction, and friction means not all Thai restaurants in the US will have it on their menu. I would be surprised if a Thai restaurant in Des Moines, Iowa served pad gaprao, whereas pad thai is universal at all US Thai restaurants.
Ocimum tenuiflorum:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocimum_tenuiflorum
It is widespread across India, both as a weed and grown in houses, gardens and temples, and there is a lot of religious and cultural stuff around it.
Edit: it is also supposed to have some medicinal value, so is added to herbal teas along with other common spices like ginger, turmeric, pepper, cardamom, clove, cinammon, etc.
Surprising that Tulsi is so rarely used in Indian cooking.
When I think about it, fragrant fresh herbs are very seldom used in Indian cooking, outside of coriander (mostly used as garnish). Even mint is used only in certain dishes.
Very regularly, actually.
Methi (fenugreek) paratha is popular wherever parathas are, which is large parts of India.
Okay.
>You are right about mint chutney but that is condiment.
True.
Pudina (mint) chutney is ubiquitous, often mixed with fresh green coriander leaves (hara dhaniya).
>When I think about it, fragrant fresh herbs are very seldom used in Indian cooking, outside of coriander (mostly used as garnish).
Somewhat true, but would vary by region. Curry leaf usage is widespread in South India. Just had an egg curry today with curry leaf (and other) flavoring, with chapatis, at a Kerala restaurant in a non-Kerala town. With raita and chopped onion and chilis on the side. :)
Methi (fenugreek) is used as a green and cooked and eaten, apart from use in parathas. Methi thepla (like paratha but from a different region, Gujarat / Rajasthan), is so tasty (to me) that I can eat it by itself. :)
And if you extend the definition of fresh (but not necessarily fragrant, some are neutral in smell) herbs to greens used like spinach, India has a wide variety of such greens that are eaten on a regular basis in different parts of the country. For example, many kinds of keerai in South India, including amaranths, palak, siru keerai, thandu keerai, agathi keerai, and many more. It's just that they are not much offered at mainstream Indian restaurants in India or abroad, AFAIK. That's because such restaurants are conservative and mainly make what sells the most.
Yes. When I first googled for holy basil Wikipedia, to post about it here, I was a bit surprised to see that other second name, because I too knew it earlier only by the sanctum second name.
>There are a few different varieties of holy basil, too.
Right. A few I know of are Krishna tulasi, Rama tulasi, vana tulasi (maybe some overlap there). Those names are mentioned in some Ayurvedic medicines that include tulasi as an ingredient, IIRC.
Careful ordering it though, as you’ll get plain rice if you don’t get the tone right!
I could move to Chiang Mai just for this dish.
Anymore I find drunken noodles(Thai spicy) pretty reliable. I have no idea if it's even an authentic dish, but it seems more consistent.
This is true in Thailand too fwiw
until you discover nam tok
Also I’d be remiss to not mention how amazing it is with prik nam pla, a simple spicy umami sour condiment that makes it explode with flavor. And a fried egg, especially if it’s a Thai fried egg. Best dish in the world to me!
Dirt cheap ($1-$1.5) and absolutely one of the best things I've ever eaten.
> Chakkrit Chuma, 30, who won the title
For an article about finding an official recipe, they fail to include the actual winning recipe.The contest website is:
The 3 best recipes / winners:
[1] https://tasteasianfood.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Pad-Kr...
Those are my Australian Holy Basil facts.
I grew up in a predominantly white midwestern US city and even we had a lot of Thai restaurants, maybe even more than Chinese or Indian. People really liked pad kee mao, pad see ew but Pad kaphrao never seemed to catch on (no product market fit haha).
It'll be interesting to see if these efforts will actually make the dish more popular - from its base ingredients (ground meat, rice, basil, and egg) it definitely seems like something Americans could get behind
Something I notice whenever I visit a Thai restaurant (which is often, since I enjoy Thai food a lot) is how much effort they put in making the decor represent the country. Of course, many ethnic restaurants have decoration influenced by the culture, but in the case of Thai restaurants there's a much heavier focus on the country - with flags, pictures of royalty, &c. Sometimes it really seems like one big PR scheme.
Living in northern Europe, btw. No idea if it's like this everywhere.
Tip #1 is get a mortar and pestle and make your own chili garlic paste using real thai chilis. Doing that seems to bless the dish with a pervasive but not overpowering heat.
Tip #2 is don't sweat it if you only have Italian or Thai basil. Sure it's not right but it's still delicious.
I prefer ground pork for the meat. It's delicious and insanely cheap.
A lot of restaurants will list this on the menu as "basil <meat(i.e. beef)> instead of some variant of "pad grapow".
The quality of the ground pork matters - especially in American grocery stores the ground pork smells like cat food. If it’s pink all the way through and looks ultra processed, it’s probably not good.
I don't know, I like it rather fine. I think it distributes the heat more evenly and results in a more pleasant burn. Now, it shouldn't be food-processor smooth. I did a batch in a vitamix once and didn't like that as much as from the mortar and pestle.
I did not expect reading an article about my favourite Thai dish first thing in the morning, on HN of, all places.
I have to think there's some place in California where you can get holy basil. Amazingly enough, near me the Asian markets don't have galangal, but the Whole Foods does.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/A1RX1yzx4nPBM6dt9
(Also serving craft beers and small burgers.)
In the Muslim South you often find it made with chopped beef, never ground (and obviously never pork). Pretty interesting that way too, but by default spicier than I can handle.
actually making Pad kaphrao tonight!