Comment by signal11 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by signal11 | Hacker News Reader

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Except the ‘helpful’ steps you mentioned don’t really work. (Another commenter linked to some up and coming apps which are far more promising[1], I’d definitely urge interested folk to look into those.)

> moreover UPI needs no defending, its stats speak for itself.

The law of large numbers applies to UPI like it does to almost everything in India: you’ll get huge numbers which look good on slides.

In reality, UPI is a bit above 10% of India’s cash transaction volume, so yeah, the reality of “UPI is ubiquitous” isn’t quite there yet.

And “UPI needs no defending” is the exact uncritical thinking I expect when there’s any forum discussion of UPI. The thread started with people saying UPI doesn’t work for tourists & short term visitors, which I believe is valid criticism.

There are many other criticisms of UPI, including and especially the governance around it. (On a more optimistic note, all of this is fixable.) But that’s for you to figure out if you’re interested!

[1] https://www.ycombinator.com/launches/JDX-cheq-upi-digital-pa...

What's your basis for saying it doesn't work? Have you actually tried to get a prepaid wallet at the airport counter and it didn't work for you?

Don't make unnecessary personal attacks by saying there's no critical thinking. If there's a specific factual thing that's incorrect in what I wrote above, feel free to point it out with evidence. Don't make unnecessary tall and broad claims about others who you know nothing about.

Btw, I didn't say UPI doesn't need improving. I actually worked on different parts of UPI stack to do exactly that. And if you take the time to look at the number of feature launches that have happened on UPI you will realize how much work to improve it is actually happening every month. Also, if you really leave your biases aside and look at it critically, you might realize that the scale of UPI wasn't a given just because it is India. It takes effort make anything get to that scale and keep growing.

> What's your basis for saying it doesn't work? Have you actually tried to get a prepaid wallet at the airport counter and it didn't work for you?

Expecting incoming international passengers to queue up at a solitary shop (and hope that it’s staffed) in an airport arrivals zone, before they exit the airport secure area, isn’t helpful or convenient or “digital”. Because passengers after long flights often just want to exit the airport and get to a comfortable bed. Or even otherwise are prone to making mistakes.

Also, I’ve actually seen the kiosks in two airports unmanned and lying empty (to be fair, early morning arrivals). So even a motivated passenger is not guaranteed to receive service if they arrive at an odd time. So when I say your advice is not helpful, yes, it’s with personal experience.

The apps (one of them funded by YC) are a great alternative to this “line up at a particular spot” madness, and hopefully they’ll improve and become more streamlined over time.

PS. If you say “xx doesn’t need defending its stats speak for itself” you will sound uncritical whether you intend to or not. It’s a classic “shut down debate” line. Perhaps appropriate at the Arnab Goswami school of debate, but out of place elsewhere.

If you use it, are called out, and then see it as a personal attack, that’s unfortunate — certainly not my intention to attack you “personally”, but you’ll need to think about your words too.

India’s obsession with SMS codes and UPI in particular sucks as a tourist/visiting businessperson. Nothing works with a non-Indian number. You can’t get an Indian SIM without an Aadhar number outside an airport and every time I’ve flown in late at night those airport kiosks have been unstaffed.

The whole system is built around phone numbers. It puts the end of the chain of trust in the hands of the corner store vendor not accepting a fake photocopy of an ID to swap SIMs. It’s ko different than when South Korea mandated ActiveX for browser security for banks.

Let’s not even get started on the whole Unique Identification Authority (UIDAI) joke. India doesn’t have Apple Pay because it’s illegal to have device-local biometrics - you must store it and verify it with the government.

UPI is also an extremely shortsighted system throwing away any semblance of privacy for the population. The whole thing doesn’t have fees partly because sharing every bit of transaction data with 7+ parties in every transaction is how it is funded.

Hey guy, I can tell you that a friend recently visited India and was told by the staff at the counter in the airport that the prepaid UPI wallet barely works and to not use it. Also since he landed in the night (like most flights from the West will), the counter was officially "closed" for this purpose and he had to haggle with the people at the counter to even get as far as he did.

UPI is a great system for Indians, but it is still hostile to anybody visiting without an Indian identity document. India's reliance on SMS for OTP codes is also super bad imo. There is no need to be defensive about UPI. It's good, but it can always be better.

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