A History of the Amen Break: From the Winstons to Futurama and Om Unit | Hacker News Reader

A History of the Amen Break: From the Winstons to Futurama and Om Unit

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168 pointsthunderbong65 comments

The different examples really make the steady liquification of drum and bass over time clear. Yeah there's still a subgenre of really hard stuff but in the 90s it was all like that, just amen break over really dark metal/industrial kind of sounds. The melodic gap between Vic Acid and the Sub Focus remix is indicative, as dnb artists got older they got more classical training and started to focus on less harsh, more ethereal sounds and way more unique melodies (sadly often lost in the club environment).

I guess the success of Hold Your Colour was a turning point. Although even that has quite a harsh sound compared to some of the stuff the DNB scene produces today.

> in the 90s it was all like that, just amen break over really dark metal/industrial kind of sounds

There was actually a whole scene from the start of the 90s that focussed on melodic and atmospheric jungle and dnb. Check out Good Looking Records. In fact even Metalheadz pushed some this sound a lot. I personally see that as a fundamental part of jungle and dnb from the get go.

I think GLR was the only label for a very long time that did that stuff though. I remember listening to DNB stations in the 90s and they were all very dark compared to today, I don't think there was any easy way to find out about liquid in those days for someone not deeply into the scene. I think that didn't change much until Fabio and Grooverider got their late night show on Radio 1 and wanted to make dnb more accessible, even so, I remember tuning in sometimes and just having to turn it off because it was too hardcore. It wasn't until I got fast enough internet and found online radio specializing in dnb that I really got into dnb but that was considered super obscure and there were only a handful of stations, and of those, only occasional shows played liquid. So I definitely feel it got more common since then.

Recommend checking out ASC and Aural Imbalance for modern takes on amen/GLR sound. They release under the Auxiliary label (search Bandcamp for them). A lot of DnB heavyweights are starting to bring back the 90s “intelligent” dnb sound recently. Really great to listen to. Nine Windows (collab between Kid Drama and DJ Trace) are another excellent example (also on Bandcamp).

https://auxiliary.bandcamp.com/music

https://ninewindows.bandcamp.com/album/rule-of-thirds

I think GLR was the only label for a very long time that did that stuff though.

Partisan. 720 Degrees. Metalheadz, as mentioned in the comment you’re responding to. Moving Shadow. Renegade. Nu-Directions. Nexus.

I don't think there was any easy way to find out about liquid in those days for someone not deeply into the scene.

Goldie literally got into the Top 40 in the UK in 1995 with “Inner City Life,” a track we would today call “liquid.” (The term wasn’t in use at the time.)

Adam F “Circles” was another very big “liquid”-style track from that era.

Sorry to be all “someone on the internet is wrong!!1” but what you’re saying just isn’t accurate.

Never heard of those (except I think Nu Directions), so I hereby bow to your superior knowledge of 90s dnb!

> The term wasn’t in use at the time

It seems fair to say that if the terminology wasn't stable at that time then it was really the very start of that trend and I can be forgiving for missing a track that charted when I was 10 years old :)

fair enough! you’re also not wrong that it’s had a resurgence.

Will just mention that Adam F's Circles is experiencing somewhat of a revival at the moment, as popular artist PinkPantheress incorporates it quite extensively in her 2021 hit 'Break It Off' - something like over 221 M plays on spotify rn!

Some DnB “OGs” such as Dom and Roland, Paradox are still heavy proponents of the amen sound, and can toss it up between darkish, breakbeaty and soulful tracks.

Long time DnB fan, since late 90s.

https://paradoxmusicuk.bandcamp.com/

https://over-shadow.bandcamp.com/music

LTJ Bukem! Lookin' good.. good lookin'..! Love his Logical Progression stuff. And classics like Atlantis, Music, etc.

Along with Air's Moon Safari, one of the Progression Sessions opened my ears to electronic music.

> in the 90s it was all like that, just amen break over really dark metal/industrial kind of sounds

not to mention whole ragga jungle which quite often was mellow, happy stuff on top of fabulously cut-up amen:)

More Rockers was my favorite in this genre, especially their Dub Plate Selection Volume One. Gorgeous record. Also check out the first Spring Heel Jack album, There Are Strings.

My favorite (jungle era) earworm sample, still ever-persistent today and which cannot be unheard is the Loon II "bird" sound from the fairlight loon garden disk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grisBvgeY18

WARNING - once you hear and this you'll forever have pulled-out-of-the-moment experiences.

Edit: here's an article on that very sample - https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/474-anaconda-pacific-state-su...

As heard in Pacific State

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRSvu91qCUk

Nice to wake up to a breakbeat thread on HN!

I grew up making/listening to funk, hiphop and drum and bass. Crate digging for breaks in old record stores was fun - that was a thing that got started by hip hop DJs/producers state side and was such a buzz to find a few bars of naked drums on a record. I have hundreds of breaks from crate digging back in the day, there’s a lot you can learn about production by dissecting them - figuring out how they sounded so fat - drum miking, compression, tape saturation, great playing.

These days there’s a lot of multitracks floating around and also ML stem separators make it pretty easy to extract drums from anywhere (although with a bit of phasing artifacts).

It’s interesting that to my knowledge there haven’t been any copyright lawsuits for drum breaks - although the record industry has been vicious about suing for sampling anything else - maybe one day in the future there will be and all aging DnB producers will be bankrupted :D

Back to the amen - it’s a special break. It has so much energy, especially sped up - to the best of my knowledge started by a couple of UK DJs mixing in hiphop records with house/acid with these breaks on them, playing at 44rpm instead of 33rpm to try to beat match them - and seeing the crowd reaction. There was an origin story on one of the Fabio & Grooverider shows of which London club this first happened and how it took off from there - people deliberately recreating that sound with sampling and chopped up/sped up breaks.

Amen still reigns supreme although there’s a lot of other great breaks too!

Well, Coleman (who played the drums) died homeless and broke. So it's not just the bad record industry, unfortunately.

that's another broken part of publishing revenue - many musicians (esp drummers) rarely get a cut of royalties unless they are put down as one of the writers

yeah, I think it is a pity, especially considering that most likely the drummer innovated the break.

The vocal part of the break is much more well known than the actual rhythm.

Although the Amen Break is nearly omnipresent, I think the Futurama mention is misguided.

The rhythm in Futurama is the same as in the song it's based on: Psyche Rock by Pierre Henry. That song was published two years before Amen Brother.

Although the rhythm sounds very similar, Futurama's (or Pierre Henry's) precisely lacks Amen Break's characteristic syncopation on its fourth bar.

Not really, the drums of the Futurama Theme are indeed sampled from the Amen Break, together with some bongos from Rapper's Delight.

Psyche Rock was sampled for the bells.

Check out this breakdown/remake and compare with the 30s theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoq5-bLYM5Q

(EDIT: It is even easier to hear the Amen Break in the extended version, check this site for the timestamps: https://www.whosampled.com/sample/808/Christopher-Tyng-Futur... )

Also keep in mind that the original Psyche Rock is this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb32bdQJBxM

...and not this 1997 remix by Fatboy Slim, which is the first result in Youtube for Psyche Rock, and also has an Amen-ish break, and sounds indeed close to the Futurama theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qssa6ec7faQ

> Although the Amen Break is nearly omnipresent

I thought that break-beat was not present last decade as much as it was between 1990-2010.

Another song that's been sampled a lot is La Di Da Di, by Slick Rick and Doug E. Fresh, which came out when I was in primary school:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-la-di-da-di-a-b-side-from-1...

  Other frequently sampled songs typically have a single element, like a drumbeat or a vocal shout, that is used again and again. Part of what makes “La Di Da Di” unusual is how many different lines from the five-minute track have wormed their way into popular music.

Slick Rick's other tracks are also emulated. You probably know 'This is how we do it' by Montell Jordan. This not only has a repeated music sample from "Children's Story", but also a verse in the style of the opening:

Children's Story:

  Once upon a time not long ago
  When people wore pajamas and lived life slow
  When laws were stern and justice stood
  And people were behavin' like they ought ta good
  There lived a lil' boy who was misled
  By anotha lil' boy and this is what he said
  "Me and you Ty, we're gonna make sum cash
  Robbin' old folks and makin' the dash"

This is how we do it:

  Once upon a time in '94
  Montell made no money and life sure was slow
  All they said was 6' 8" he stood
  And people thought the music that he made was good
  There lived a D.J. and Paul was his name
  He came up to Monty, this is what he said
  You and O.G. are gonna make some cash
  Sell a million records and we're makin' tha dash

See also https://www.ted.com/talks/mark_ronson_how_sampling_transform..., a good ted talk on this (that the WSJ article is probably inspired by)

The Amen Break is (in my understanding) one of the more important fragments of music in modern history. As there is a common, golden thread that began seventy years ago in Jamaica. Which runs all the way up into the modern day as Drum And Bass music and beyond.

The Amen Break is part of a special story, one of fusing human cultures from around the planet into a common sound. I encourage people to do a bit of research here, it's worth your time.

Thank you for the great article and excellent subject.

Really recommend 12tone's music analysis (building the break up from the individual drum grooves) [0]. Their videos are always fantastic; it's an amazing level of musical analysis. That said, not everyone likes their style of presentation.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwOs4aM6upA

17 Years ago this audio/video explained it all. Props to the artist Landon for laying down the audio to a record and playing the audio (with examples) from the record. 6.8 millions views - the Winstons will never be forgotten.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2bcac&t=3s

It's a mini-documentary by Nate Harrison from 2004, that 2006 version is just the first YouTube upload of it.

Amen Break is definitely one of the most important samples.

Another important sample is Dirty Feet:

https://www.whosampled.com/Daly-Wilson-Big-Band/Dirty-Feet/

I love Jazz hip pop and I am trying to add this capability to Glicol (https://glicol.org)

A music live coding language that I am developing

The article mentions: "Chopping the break into individual hits on a sampler"

I always believe the easiest way to do it is via live coding

The medium for these classic samples, is shifting from vinyl , akai to online platforms including splice

Somehow I feel is important to note that the Amen Break, being super-influential to the whole genre of jungle/jungle-tek is not so important for drum and bass, contrary to some statements here. I also doubt how important it was to hiphop in general.

The so called 'jungle music' is defined by the amen - it is not jungle unless it has it. Period. This Shy FX track cited in the article is "Original" because of the frantic MCing of UK Apache (what did this guy take in the studio!!). There's a whole lot of much more intense and better tracks. Try any Krinjah track like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssPd9j6VaRw.

In fact, the label Metalheadz introduced the notion of dnb as a marketing move to distance its industrial-influenced sound from what was initially called jungle-tek, and was really techno with the amen break increasingly getting 'seasoned' on top of it. So dnb is not defined by the amen break, but rather by what is called the 'reese' sound and very specific arrangement and syncopation of layers of similar samples, which is nowhere to be found in jungle.

I presume there must be other reasons that mad amen got big - not only his sonic characteristics. In fact many funk records expose such loops, and lots of these had been used in pop music, not only underground. The sample itself, I presume should've been largely available during tracker times during 90s - I guess on BBSs or in sample packs.

We are also very familiar, thanks to Prodigy, with the breaks of Bernard Purdie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Purdie) sampled at least twice (to my knowledge) by Liam Howlett for his biggest hist (I write his here because he is indeed the main producer of most if not all Prodigy bangers). But you see it was only Liam who sampled it, because he had the records. And I doubt hundreds of teen producers had the original Amen record. And I presume this has to do with the modtracker and trackers, because it was so easy to take s.o. else's samples and do stuff with it. It is not trivial to take samples from someone's MPC, though, so my guess is that Amen must be also regarded as an internet-age phenomenon, not purely musical.

> The so called 'jungle music' is defined by the amen - it is not jungle unless it has it. Period.

This is definitely NOT TRUE! Plenty of jungle has no amens in it: DJ Hype - Roll Da Beats (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNo9NR3F7KA)

DJ Dextrous (Da Kings Of The Jungle) - Time To Move (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhXUEetPY6E)

Tom & Jerry - Maximum Style (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVukhJ1acSc)

Dillinja - Tear Down Da Whole Place (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEVGJGR5maI)

THE MOST WELL KNOWN JUNGLE TUNE OF ALL TIME HAS Z E R O AMENS IN IT:

M-Beat - Incredible (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL2Bgj-za5k)

It's the Blowfly - Sesame's Treat break.

wait, that break is from Blowfly?! I was a DJ for years and I love Blowfly and never knew that, how embarassing, TIL.

Yeah, it's one of the Classic DnB/Jungle breaks. Like on this one:

Deep Blue - The Helicopter Tune (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vbnxrccBQQ)

classic Jungle and Drum & Bass Breaks are

Lyn Collins - Think

Bobby Byrd - Hot Pants (I'm Coming)

Incredible Bongo Band - Apache

Blowfly - Sesame Street

James Brown - Soul Pride

James Brown - Funky Drummer

I recommend Tim Cant's "A Beginner's Guide To Jungle Breakbeats" [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuaKtIjSY_A]

I stand corrected. The Jungle is not only about amen, but then it is the only genre so much infused with the amen. You are right that people back in the day sampled various afro/funk stuff to get nice loops. But from what I've heard (I can name man y more than these here in your post), the most extreme jungle examples actually have some amen in it.

So my point is - the musical genre most defined by amen is jungle music, and how an amen can be used/abused was shown through jungle. hope this works for u.

Gratitude. Distinguishing jungle vs dnb is fascinating.

I would love an encyclopedia of musical genres. With examples. Just to feed my curiosity.

Doo-Wop vs Be-Bop, Rock & Roll vs Rock, Swing vs Jazz, Hornpipe vs reel.

For electronic music, Ishkur's guide is exactly what you're looking for http://music.ishkur.com/?query=RaggaJungle

Not so cool but with more genres than electronic https://everynoise.com/

A pleasant surprise to see Om Unit pop up on HN :-)

Amen Break is just one of dozens used in jungle/d&b mind.

Here's one of my favourite tracks under his Mahakala alias – The Exodus (2018)

[Track] https://youtu.be/DYKUU-AsHvM

[Discogs] https://www.discogs.com/release/12603789-Mahakala-The-Exodus...

If you're interested in more, this is a nice and short documentary (2014) on the Amen Break: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2bcac

2004 :)

Wow, event the video on Youtube was from February 2006, must be one of the oldest videos there.

My first attempt to load the video was met with an ad so I killed the yt app on my phone. I’m assuming this is the one narrated by a fellow with a deep voice and an acetate record. Timing would be about right. If so, this is a phenomenal look at the evolution of its place in music that I also was going to link in this thread.

Music history.

Deep voice person is Nate Harrison, you can also watch it on archive.org: https://archive.org/details/NateHarrisonCanIGetAnAmen

James Brown is also a legendary source of Hip Hop samples. For example, anyone who was listening to hip-hop music in the 80s will recognize this section:

https://youtu.be/FmgJCFk_PIA?t=79

The track is by Lyn Collins, not James Brown.

But JB produced the track and can even be heard on the track in the section you posted! The "Yeah", the faint "Come on" and the "Ya bad" has his unmistakable voice.

Sadly “The Winstons” received no money for the sample. Tragic that the genius behind this revolution got absolutely nothing.

Last remaining member received $22k. Not enough.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/rmje4q/amen-breakbeat-fundra...

Interestingly ta very rare that someone would say the same about some open source project where nobody gets anything. Why are you guys so biased when it’s about music?

On the other hand, if they have actively tried to get loyalties from the Amen Break then barely no one would have tried sampling it, and wouldn’t have the kind of influence it has today.

What about this one, is this the amen break but super slow? (it's from 1968 and it's close no?)

https://youtu.be/6L5wJfQrK2E

(and one of the rare comments on that vid says: "The original drum and bass", so I'm not the only one confused)

YouTube has speed controls, if you speed it up, you can tell it's not in the same rhythm as either amen break nor other common DNB drum patterns.

Not an amen. I noticed a lot of people refer to breakbeats in general as "amen". The "correct" term for drum breaks and solos of old funk and soul records is "Breakbeat" as defined by a lot of Hip Hop Artists. A dead and flagged comment in this thread mentioned the "Ultimate Beats & Breaks" records, which are the basis for HipHop from 1988 onwards and of course UK Hardcore/Jungle/DnB.

Weird the article didn't mention Let Me Be Your Fantasy by Baby D, probably the most famous use (and my favourite use) in the UK at least: (1992)

https://youtu.be/LXMihKGqtfc?t=20

Classic Amen

https://invidious.lunar.icu/watch?v=1lHlxKgwLSE

I am guessing more than a few participants in this thread are fans of the Ultimate Breaks and Beats compilations.

Late 60s, early 70s had the best combination of technology & limitations to create some of the most memorable music. Go much earlier than that & everything sounds hollow. Too much later ( I'm looking at you, 1980s) and everything is polished & synthetic to phoniness.

Every generation seems to think the technical limitations of their era produced superior art; the previous generation was always too limited, and the following always have it too easy. They might be right for themselves, but it's clear the situation is much more subjective than the absolutes that get thrown around.

The 1980s gave us samplers that could only do a few seconds of audio, and entire genres were built on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJf9Jptq7VY

People who came up then probably feel the same way you do, but about samplers with no practical limits.

You're making an assumption that the parent's age and ignoring the possibility that they actually just think that the 60s/70s had the best combination of technical ability to limitation.

I came up in the 90s (that's actually when sampler based music really took off vs using turntables or tape to loop things).

I still think the 60s/70s had better trade off between limitation to technical capabilities. Studio time used to be unbelievably expensive, so people didn't mess around.

I love Goldie's Inner City Life (1994) and DJ Shadow's Endtroducing, they really changed things for me. Neither would be the same if they didn't have the source material to sample from.

> Studio time used to be unbelievably expensive, so people didn't mess around.

Except some of the best music from that era is from rich people who COULD mess around (Dark Side of the Moon, for example). The 80s/90s opened that up to poor scumbags like myself.

I came up in the late 80s/early 90s sampling era. Guess what era of music most samples we used came from?

You're right, because that's how I feel about the 90s and MODtracker music. Best era, best limitations.

I got my start with OpenMPT. The tools I have now usually feel like an upgrade, but not always.

I grew up during a time when funky drummer felt way more pervasive as a break

Oh, Om Unit mentioned on HN, thats a pretty special day! :-)

Once upon a time I met Om Unit on a flight in Europe, and now on here he appears on hackernews. Small world.

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