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Comment by j-wags | Hacker News Reader

I learned recently that the pluralization of "octopus" is a linguistics rabbit hole. While most people would reach for "octopuses" or "octopi", the strictly correctest pluralization would be "octopodes" (last syllable rhyming with "these"), since the word is from ancient greek. [1]

I first heard this on a linguistics podcast called "Talk the Talk"[2] (now superseded by "Because Language"[3]). The hosts go on to clarify that language evolves over time and is most importantly defined by what people actually use, so there's nothing wrong with modern English deviating from the ancient greek pluralization.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus#Etymology_and_pluralis... [2] https://talkthetalkpodcast.com/ [3] https://becauselanguage.com/

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It is my understanding that 'octopuses' is the strictly correct option because it matches a greek root word with an English suffix and we are speaking English after all. Dictionaries seem to agree.

Octopodes is acceptable in some contexts because it matches a greek root word with a greek suffix. Octopi is just wrong because it applies a latin suffix to a greek root.

This came up notably a few years ago as the winning answer to a high-stakes HQ Trivia game. [1]

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/05/arts/hq-trivia-app-appoin...

I’m not sure I agree.

If we were speaking Latin, would “Octopi” still be wrong? Given the logic used to claim that Octopuses is the correct pluralization, I don’t see how it could be.

Thus, I’m left to conclude that Octopodes is the only correct form since it lacks this spoken language dependency.

Yes, octopi is wrong in latin. Octopus is conjugated as Octopodi in the plural. See: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/octopus#Latin

See my sibling comment - where does the insistence that octopus is third declension come from? The reality is that while most Greek loanwords are third declension, many are not, and Latin authors tended to not be consistent.

Totally, it would still be wrong for the reason you cited.

Wasn't my point, however. I'm really just being stubborn on the plural actually being Octopodes :)

There is no such way to define strictly correct through logic alone in English. It's really just whatever people say.

After all, we have a ton of words that mix latin and greek roots/-fixes. Eg bioluminescence, bigamy, homophobic, etc.

Yeah, I think that battle was lost a long time ago, and in the scheme of things it wasn't not a big loss. Octopuses is more consistent with how English speakers pluralize, plus it's waaaay more fun to say.

My understanding is that all variations are generally acceptable and no one cares all that much:

* octopodes

* octopi

* octopuses

No. Octopi is just wrong, has no justification, and is based on ignorance.

Tell my 2nd grade teacher.

No. You seem very confident, but octopi is (grammatically) perfectly acceptable. The English word octopus is taken from the Latin (coined by Linnaeus) word octopus, which is of Greek origin. Greek loanwords in Latin were used very inconsistently, but many people on the internet seem to believe that it MUST be a third declension noun. However, Pliny treats the structurally identical polypus as second declension and uses the plural polypi (see https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Plin.+Nat.+9&f...).

> no one cares

My elementary school teachers sure did. And they insisted that it was "octopi".

To boldly go.

Excuse me if this may sounds harsh or uncharitable, but my experience with American elementary school teachers has led me to believe that many, if not most, elementary school teachers are generally rigid in their way of teaching (my way is the right way, there is no other way), and refuse to address nuance, perhaps from their own ignorance, their patronization of children, or both. While we absolutely need and should support high quality elementary school teachers, the assumption I've developed is that most elementary school teachers are highly juvenile themselves, and are there partially due to their own lack of executive functioning, considering that elementary school is more similar to a day care than an actual educational facility.

I recall talking to an elementary school teacher who insisted that the only way to comprehend whether a number was even was to determine if the least significant digit was 0 or 2 and I was met with hostility when I mentioned that while that may be easier for the child to understand within a base-10 world, if even the educator can't understand why an even number is more accurately described as a number which when divided by 2 has a remainder of 0 then I should be very concerned about the state of education.

It’s possible. I suspect it may partly be that stories about elementary teachers being stubbornly wrong are more interesting than stories of them being stubbornly right or being open minded.

I can agree that I'm most likely experiencing selection bias here.

I haven't heard about much besides perhaps even stronger rigidity from other places so we might not be especially bad and I've only heard of softening in the US lately.

But spending too much time on nuance may be especially counterproductive with younger children. I'm not sure about that but it's a reasonable hypothesis.

Octopux.

Its Engl-ish. Emphasis on the -ish.

They’re all fine.

I think you are correct on the first point, but judging by the other comments here (and any time this subject crops up), you are apparently wrong on the second. :P

I feel like we should settle it with something that nobody agrees on. Octopuswiches.

Or perhaps Octopussies?

I think people would agree with that though.

Octii

Hexapus.

As an Australian I'm used to hearing "antipodean" and sometimes "antipodes", so "octopodes" sits well!

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