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Comment by soligern | Hacker News Reader

Honestly I think this is majorly overblown. Having lived in both India and the US and being in my late 30s, I’ve never seen caste come up in any conversation even once. That’s tens of thousands of Indian people at the very least. Feels like this person is hyper aware of his caste and seems to take steps bordering on paranoia.

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The author says that:

1. OBCs are estimated to comprise 40-45% of India's population

and

2. Exactly one out of 180 CS faculty members across five IITs belongs to OBC category

Those two facts alone make it sound like a pretty big deal to me, even if it hasn't been a part of your experience in India. Or do you think he is wrong about those numbers?

Historically and culturally the higher castes are more educationally oriented so it wouldn’t be surprising. The caste system is rapidly breaking down but only for about the last generation. I presume it’s going to take time for representation within college professors being one of the most erudite fields. On the other hand, there is tremendous representation within the government, judges, police, teachers, civil servants, engineers etc. Modi the PM is an OBC, the president is also OBC. A very large number of politicians are from lower castes.

The numbers could be right, but you couldn’t exactly argue discrimination tbh.

27% seats are reserved for OBC students in IITs

There is a similar quota for people in OBC categories in govt jobs (which IIT professors are). Maybe there are plenty of OBC professors, but not in CS? Or that they don’t openly identify as OBC? Or maybe, people just don’t qualify/apply to the position?

Lol and why don’t they qualify?

Because of centuries of discrimination that has kept them poorer and less educated.

You might be able to argue that there is no discrimination today and that the hiring process itself is not discriminatory, but the outcomes are entirely the result of discrimination in society.

This discussion made me curious, how is the cause of their poverty and lack of opportunity relevant? There are hundreds of millions of underprivileged people in India, why should those from a lower caste be given precedence over others, even if there is a history of oppression behind their poverty?

But that is exactly what exists. You could be born in a “lower caste” but a wealthy family, you’d have a preferential treatment over someone who is poor but is born in a “higher caste”.

So there's basically three views on social welfare. The far right doesn't want it to exist at all, or if it must exist it should be funneled towards the already powerful, because nobody deserves it. The left says that we need to distribute social welfare in order to equalize society, because everyone deserves a good life. The liberals, in between the two, view welfare as a means to make up for societal failures or outright wrongs. It's not about the fact that these people are needy, it's about the fact that they're needy and it's our fault.

Race/caste/etc based welfare distribution comes from that last model.

You’re presuming Anglo political dynamics and cleavages onto a completely foreign culture here. The Indian right wing I wouldn’t characterize as “anti-welfare” at all.

> Because of centuries of discrimination that has kept them poorer and less educated

No one is denying this. But there has been a reservation of seats for SC and ST categories for about 80 years and for OBC category for 40+ years in education. The reservation in govt job openings exists since the 80s. How can you reasonably argue that the outcomes are entirely the result of discrimination in society?

Caste is absolutely a huge problem in India as these numbers show. It’s a different question whether it’s a problem in Western companies, especially outside India, and I’m not sure about the data for that.

That being said, even this statistic shows that we should be wary of mapping our understanding of other kinds of discrimination onto caste without being very careful.

In an idealized version of the caste system (which you will see some bigots use to defend it but in the real world the idealized version is nowhere to be seen), it’s literally impossible for those lower caste numbers to be anything other than 0%, because in the idealized version your caste is defined by your profession, so being a professor means you’re not any of those castes.

I think the case is highlighted pretty well, clearly the representation is less because of continued/historical lack of access.

Seems to be something that should addressed asap because this is clearly holding the Indian economy and social progress back, efficient use of labor and capital is key, seems to me this is an obvious hindrance.

The bit about names is interesting, seems like something that has a hold on society and people go out of their way to conform to it. Like it is subliminal, not externally evident like race so it should be theoretically an easier problem to solve, I wonder if education and economic progress can resolve this, ironic as it is.

Can you think of a ethno-religious group, one that has been persecuted for centuries, that is over represented in US academia, media and finance?

Is it a big deal that this is the case and does it imply a grand conspiracy? Or are there other explanations?

There are two sides to the story. Yes caste does come up in India in daily life, the more rural you go, the more important it becomes. That being said, there is also an element of obsession with caste in people who are well removed from the discrimination because they’re doing well socio economically. Sometimes people feel discriminated against because generally that’s what you’re told you should expect, but sometimes you over compensate for your insecurities and people just don’t like you for who you are. I’ve had plenty of people from OBC come up to me in the US and ask my caste, and when I don’t engage, they feel almost insulted. Context: I’m not OBC but I’m not up there in the caste ladder either. And I’ve basically completely blocked the whole caste system from my brain.

There we have it. It's a non issue so let's move on folks.

Works on my computer!

I wasn't even aware of my caste (ST) until I joined intermediate(equivalent to 11-12 grade). I feel like I'm lucky that I didn't face any sort of caste discrimination. I guess it depends on which part of India you live in.

The unfortunate side effect of being subjected to this sort of insanity from a young age. That conditioning is very hard to shake off.

When you’re getting f’d over, it never “comes up in conversation.”

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen...

Just curious, what caste were you born into?

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