Fairphone 5
shop.fairphone.com
shop.fairphone.com
You will be more environmentally friendly if you just don't upgrade from whatever phone you have for a few years. This seems as much of an accounting trick as carbon offsets, which don't really do anything. They could buy a bunch of used smartphones from a reseller market that probably would have been sold anyway, but Fairphone then resells them on the used market. Somehow, this means "100% compensation" for your purchase because they are giving another phone a new life.
It's worth noting, however, that all of their newer flagships (based on a CPU design they have more control over) have guaranteed security updates for 5 years after release.
FWIW I despise Google and do my absolute best to avoid compensating them, but I do think things like their guaranteed security updates are a step in the right direction, and hopefully we can only get further improvements from here.
I’m not against economy but it should be a tool to empower humanity, not the opposite.
There would still be warranty periods. But the company would be required to indefinitely continue selling replacement parts, provide repair services (or support third party repair services with manuals, schematics, etc), issue security updates for critical vulnerabilities, etc.
* Subject to of course willing volunteers.
While LineageOS can easily extend a phone's lifetime by several years, it's not a real replacement for manufacturer support. I think GrapheneOS's take makes sense, especially for a security-oriented ROM.
[1] https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/qualcomm-vuln...
More common exploits target things like the GPU drivers. They require code execution on the device (i.e., an app you've downloaded) but they can be an easy path to root access for attackers targeting specific devices.
Realistically, people use phones long beyond their official software support lifetime. Plenty of unhacked phones going around still running Android 8. Android's fragmentation makes it hard to write a one-size-fits-all exploit chain like on you can on iOS.
Just make sure to only run apps from sources you trust and to update your browser, and I'm sure you should be fine for another few years.
If you want to, you can run ROMs like LineageOS. They won't fix the binary blobs, but they'll patch the open source version of Android and keep you up to date in that regard. My phone stopped receiving updates after an Android 11 update and now it's running last week's Android 13 build, patching a whole bunch of Android runtime vulnerabilities. Many phones in use today are vulnerable to a zero-click Bluetooth exploit that would be fixed by installing LineageOS or something similar to that. The newer Android version also provides me with all of the privacy improvements that have been made in Android 12 and 13. I'm hopeful that it'll run Android 14 as well, though depending on a volunteer project isn't a guarantee of course.
In theory my phone could probably be hacked quite easily though the outdated GPU drivers, but in practice I don't think I'm at that great a risk unless I try to start pirating games or something.
When you are being targetted, you soon find out that these big and small businesses cant save you from criminals.
The antibiotics were stolen in the hour or so it took for me to walk my dog and the only person in the house during this time was Lorraine Botwright https://www.lakenheath.af.mil/News/Features/Display/Article/...
I should add, from a very young age I've been drugged by my own parents and made to do stuff naked with what can only be described as something like scopolamine.
But you know the govt doesnt teach you what parents can and cant do to you, just like the legal system doesnt teach law to anyone either!
Makes me wonder who are the real criminals?
I'm pretty sure I've managed to do something late night and wake up to it thinking the same (and as far as I know I dont have CO build up lol)
No way am I getting rid of my Pixel 5 in a month, it still runs like a champ. Can anyone tell me realistically what are the risks of running a phone without security updates? If it's worth anything, I almost exclusively run FOSS apps from F-Droid.
Wonder why it is so short: is support that expensive for many models? or simply to force users into unneeded upgrades (F* that).
I've never understood people talking about "support", still rocking a 7 year old phone (have changed the battery) with fairly recent lineageos. Only really use floss apps though and don't browse weird sites.
I use a computer for serious stuff.
If you really cared about waste you could a) not buy a phone with limited support if for some mystical reason you care for that or b) find ways to use the phone without support.
> You will be more environmentally friendly if you just don't upgrade from whatever phone you have for a few years.
I'm not going to buy a new phone if I'm not in the market, that much should be obvious for anyone? Probably doubly so for the people willing to buy a Fairphone.
Unfortunately I've just found out this week that Slack are discontinuing support for my version of Android. As my workplace uses Slack and I need to support the applications I work on, this means I'll need to either get a new phone or install a custom ROM so that I can get a more modern Android version. As it's my primary and only phone, the custom ROM route is a little worrying as it means I could potentially be without a phone if I don't have time to work through any issues that come up. Also, last time I ran a custom ROM, Google Wallet refused to work on my device.
So I'm effectively forced to buy a new device, despite being reasonably happy with the one I've got.
Unfortunately I had to switch to a newer phone later when my bank app started complaining.
> I’m effectively forced to buy a new phone.
forced seems a bit strong:
- Wallet: everyone used to carry a 10g credit card in their pocket for the last decades and it worked pretty well and conveniently. There’s some consumers avantages but the biggest winner with phone wallets are Google and Apple.
- Slack: there’s a web based version, even if not very convenient with phone. Don’t know your role and position but most employees can get away with desktop slack. Not having slack on your personal phone is also seen as a benefit for many.
- support the application I work on: stand instead for supporting you own phone with the application you work on. If your phone can handle it, flagships will. As an app worker you can have a real impact on phones durability by allowing others users to continue using your service with their own 5yo phones.
It works fine, so I don't want to replace it, but even more than that it's small — 148x73mm. There are no other decent Android phones of a similar size! (I have signed up at https://smallandroidphone.com/).
But back to the point, in Denmark the national identity system relies on either a smartphone app or a key fob for authentication — it's needed for online banking login, online credit/debit card purchases, viewing my medical records, etc. The app supposedly might work, or might be made to work on a custom OS, but from reading around Reddit it looks like a continual hassle to keep it working. I also don't much fancy adding a large fob to my keychain, especially as unlike in the app the number on the fob isn't protected by a fingerprint or PIN.
(I'm on call sometimes, and we use Slack to coordinate, so I may end up with no choice. Whether work pay for the new phone or myself is irrelevant, it's the environmental footprint and size I care about.)
Slack: I didn't realise there was a web based version. Not sure if I could SSO sign into it, but I'll give it a try. I'll have to investigate whether it supports push notifications. This could solve my problem if it does.
Hmm, just tried web slack and it doesn't seem to exist on the phone, even in desktop mode. Just shows me settings and doesn't show the channels or contacts.
Trick maybe, but also:
Which is why they provide 5 years warranty software updates.
And while there are phone you might be able to use well beyond 5 years for your use-case, after 5 years (and often earlier) many want a new phone, in the end people are not fully selfless and needs can also change.
E.g. I for a very long time didn't need a camera, but now I need one and the one of my current ~4 year old phone just doesn't quite cut it. And if I get a FP5 now I probably will be able to use it for the full 5 years, and them I will check if I can put some alternate OS on it and pass it one to someone who is satisfied with that.
Apart from the previously low battery life there's absolutely no other reason for me to upgrade. The camera is good enough, the screen is good enough, weight, screen size, expandable storage all good enough.
I was thinking about getting a fairphone as my 5 years old Huawei P20 Lite was suffering from poor battery life and USB-C and 3.5mm jack not working so well anymore. A friend told me that a battery replacement and jack cleaning would be very cheap, I went for it and I'm very happy I did, I like my phone a lot.
That's what they said in an email reply to me. Not sure what question I was asking, but they were very upfront about it.
Sure, you can get second hand phones, but: 1. You won't get any security patches (or not for long) 2. I don't think I can trust a 2nd hand device to not be modified in some way. Feels like an easy way to get valuable data.
So if security is a concern at all, I think new phones are sadly the only way to go.
That said it is a decent reflection 'do I really need a new one' but a lot of people (esp poor ppl) run around with insecure devices, a shame.
I think you still have to consider the "Fair" in Fairphone to be a significant selling point. That's not a bad thing, but it's not going to go mainstream until it competes with other phones on everything else at their price point.
Electric cars didn't go mainstream until Tesla (roughly) because before that they weren't competitive with mainstream cars in terms of performance, comfort, or other factors.
And Fairphone can never be price competitive related to the specs when it is still paying workers more than others.
They can't do magic
Fairphone is manufactured in Asia where wages are lower. Most smartphones are not made in sweatshops, so while pay may be low, it's unlikely that Fairphone are paying >2x the wages, and I'd bet it's fairly close to the wages others are paying.
I suspect most of their increased costs come from small production runs, and smaller purchase orders for components rather than paying workers more. These are issues that scale well as they become mainstream.
> They can't do magic
This is unfortunately true. I suspect getting to real scale would require investment of the level that Fairphone are unlikely to ever be able to get with their values. This is a failure of society and incentives, but complaining about it isn't going to fix it.
I feel like a better approach would be for Fairphone to tackle one issue, and make a phone that it much more competitive based on that, and scale up the issues they tackle as the business scales.
You're comparing manufacturers and individual models to an entire market segment. That electric vehicle prevalence is for all makes and models. The more accurate comparison in my mind would be to V8 cars from all manufacturers, or diesel vehicles from all manufacturers.
Paying 700 is not "relatively low", that's a huge premium which I'd be happy to pay to get my current hardware (from 2019) again but with ten years of software support and fair material sourcing and manufacturing wages. Unfortunately, the hardware is worse than what I've currently got (unwieldy size, no headphone jack, worse camera probably, no stereo speaker, no wireless charger), and the software downsides of the FP3 that I tried to adapt to for a few weeks were even worse than the hardware downsides. But anyway, that's all besides the point that 700 euros is not a normal price for a phone. If this lasts thrice as long as another 250-euro device then it's still not cheaper because the battery will need replacing.
Maybe it's a bit sad that there isn't that much progress lately (compared to early to mid 2010s), but it also means that i will be able to continue to use my phone for several more years without much problems (Except for Android updates, but I already have custom ROM installed).
[1] https://nanoreview.net/en/soc-compare/qualcomm-snapdragon-85...
A lot of people think custom ROM is going to give you a secure device but hardware vulnerabilities sometimes have to be fixed on a higher level.
FP5 sports an OLED. Xiaomi devices don't AFAIK.
Its apples to oranges to compare with any Xiaomi device.
Xiaomi is not modular, ever. Xioami have no user replaceable battery or screen. Xiaomi have a proprietary UI (non-standard Android) and many do not allow to run a different OS than it came with. I wouldn't trust Xiaomi or any of that Chinaware with my PII.
FP4 allows all of that and its likely FP5 does, too. The nice thing about repairable smartphone with long software support is akin to iPhones (though from like X till 13 was tough to repair); great resale value and good hand-me-down for your kid.
If you keep it for 5 years (until warranty runs out) is it 140 euro per year, 12 euro per month.
I pay 12 euro per month for netflix and I don't even think about it being expensive. Why wouldn't I spend same amount of money on the most important device I have? Except for computer maybe.
I'd totally pay 7000 euros for a smartphone if it lasts five years and there are no cheaper options of virtually equal quality, but there are.
Saw a thread on Tildes yesterday where people argued for splurging on basically every necessity of modern life except water. If I tried to spend money on everything people were arguing for, I'd spend a significant fraction of my retirement fund before I'm done, and I'm happy with budget options also (but it takes a bit of time to find the minimum necessary, rather than buying expensive and it's usually fine)
Headphone jack, add a $10 Apple USB-C to 3.5mm adapter to the end of your headphones; it has a great DAC in it: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/r...
The Oppo A94 and the Oppo Find X5 Lite come pretty close for €259 or €294 respectively, with almost no update guarantees. The Xiaomi 12 Lite for €305 should be a bit better in terms of updates, but for the "standard" five years you should start looking at the Samsung models (A34 for €349, A65 for €380).
€700 is cheap for a repairable phone from a small company, but it's definitely not low on the smartphone price spectrum. Android phones that are slow, but honestly better than what I have paid €450 for a few years ago, are going for about €90 these days. Those phones even come with free chargers, something €2126 iPhones lack.
I don't see how phones have improved at all in the last several years, aside from the camera. In many ways they've gotten worse.
Given that my last 3 phones all died when I dropped them (in part because they're too big and too thin) I don't really want to spend a lot of money on one.
I really wish I could get a slider like an HTC Touch Pro 2 with a modern OS. Or just an iPhone 5C with software updates.
Might I recommend a phone case? I don't think I've ever heard of a phone breaking more than the screen visually cracking after dropping, even without a case, besides I think one time my cousin was repairing a phone whose touchscreen didn't work correctly anymore. I'm sure it happens but the amount of luck to have that three times in a row seems odd.
As for most of them being too large (especially the cheapest ones), I agree, that's why I bought a smaller phone second hand.
And it's so powerful it still does everything I need years later.
Are normal people actually utilising phone specs these days? Sure some people game but surely everyone else is barely using the CPU etc
i know a handful of ppl that have phones above 500euros, but most don't because they have other priorities or kids that might wreck it
My phone is about one inch too tall for my liking. I'd cut it shorter and make it lighter. It's a Samsung A40. It's not worth spending more than about 200 Euro when everything more expensive is worst size and weight wise. Featurewise this phone is more than enough.
true. and it's not like 100g smartphones weren't possible ten years ago
- Repairable
- Headphone jack
- ~~Water-proof~~ Water-resistant
Choose two. They're all relevant to being sustainable, but I do think that of those three, the headphone jack is least relevant.
headphone jack can be made watertight no problem
- Headphone jack
- A functional IPXY water/dust rating
- Replaceable battery
There aren't a ton of phones that satisfy this, but I ended up with a Samsung XCover Pro and have been quite happy with it.
Of course, repairable covers more than a replaceable battery, but I do think Fairphone could have added a headphone jack without too much trouble.
I checked out the specs on this phone - I'd love to hear what you think about it.
Water-proofness/resistance and a headphone jack does not collide at all. There are many devices that proof that. For repairability, I also do not see how this might conflict with the other goals, as quite some devices had headphone jacks that were easy to swap. Look at how the framework laptop puts them on a small audio board for example, the same had been done in phones.
I do remember they explicitly addressed this in the FP4 launch, so it wasn't for lack of want.
The phone itself is glued, but the jack does not seem to be. It likely works with pressure and might have a gasket seal - which is not surprising if you look at how watches do it.
But I think you are right - they said something like that when the FP4 came out. But that phone is a matter of principle anyway. If it is possible to get the phone with an audio jack in a good state, but the certification process is broken, then they should not certify it (and publicly attack the certifier). The Sony phone shows it can be done on a technical level, which is what matters.
Water seeping inside an IP55 because you drop it in the bath, sink, toilet, hurricane, etc? Turn the thing off right away, remove battery, get it in a box with desiccant, and it'll probably be fine in a day. If not? Still repairable.
So IPX8 states that the device can be submersed, but makes no statement about spray/droplets. If you comply to both, then they're both stated, eg "IPx5/IPx8"
The same applies to your IPX5 statement, defined as resistant to spray but not submersible. It makes no guarantee about what could happen if you drop it in water
And finally, even the drip tests only test for 10 minutes. Anything longer than 10 minutes is not guaranteed by IPX1-5
If the FP5 were just a tad smaller with a telephoto (like the Xperia) I'd be all over it---water resistant or not.
Their headphones might have a replaceable battery, but headphones do not necessarily need one at all. Their earphones even have a baked in battery that is not replaceable. And in general, not having a headphone jack pushes consumers to buy bluetooth devices, of which almost none have replaceable batteries (the fairbuds-xl are the big outlier). It's an ecological disaster.
anecdote: had a ten year old premium car with "bluetooth" but could not manage to pair it with anything - supposedly the used bt-standard is outdated or something
Also, it absolutely is an issue in practice. Dongles get lost (-> additional garbage produced), and blocking the USB-C slot means the phone can't be charged. Especially when traveling both slots are needed all the time.
I don't think it's even about the jack anymore, complaining about it is just a shibboleth for a subgroup of Stallman types who dislike the state of modern computing.
Are we living on the same planet?
As others have pointed out the screen is to large, personally I really don't want to go above the 4.7". The price seems reasonable, as compared to other phones, but still €500 above the value I place on phones, but that's not specific to Fairphone.
I also wish they'd offer something other than Android, but I get why they don't.
e.g. here's the official manual for Ubuntu on FP4 https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/443616798209...
Edit: I think I'm mistaken about Windows. On https://www.digitec.ch/de/page/fairphone-5-im-test-ein-smart... I read Windows 11 but that's about the chip being powerful enough to run that, not that the phone specifically supports it
https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_2_(fairphone-fp...
https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_3_(fairphone-fp...
https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_4_(fairphone-fp...
https://nl.linkedin.com/in/luca-weiss?trk=public_post_feed-r...
Sadly the size is a no go for me. I have a Pixel 4a still and am super happy with the device and I can't deal with anything bigger than that. Maybe a little bigger but not 6.46 inches. I mean come on. I have big hands but I want to be able to put it in my pants pockets.
But yeah 500Eur is my max price, so I will wait for black friday or next year.
- There are no hardware kill switches to turn the microphone and cameras off, are there? So if you don't trust smartphones to not be compromised you must always assume you're being filmed and recorded. (Yes, I know I am paranoid, you don't have to punish me with downvotes for that please. Instead please spread positivity by upvoting other people's comments, the effect is almost the same :)
- The "hole punch" front camera makes it difficult to put e.g. duct tape over it to compensate for the lack of kill switches.
I wonder if Google's end game is for manufacturers to hardwire a power LED to the microphone and camera, as this would be close to a perfect system of notifying users they are being recorded, although there will always be a handful of reasons to oppose this and a handful of people adamant a hardwired power LED can still be bypassed without physical access to a device.
-----
While annoying, you could just assume the pixels between the bezel and punch hole will almost never be useful and just put a thin, long tape piece over the entire edge. (The case would then conveniently keep it in place, where it can be temporarily flipped up.)
-----
For the extreme privacy minded (e.g. a Richard Stallmann level of, uhh, prudence) you could probably pop out the modules holding the microphone and camera and then exclusively use a USB-C microphone/headset/webcam. Then usability comes down to whether the OS would continue to start with one of these peripherals missing, although in our experience with FP2 and 3, some of the microphones would sometimes fail with no other side effects. I imagine a missing camera would probably just crash the Camera app and any other you've given camera permission to.
I seemed to have missed out on:
* +22% increased CPU GHz
* ~40% increased performance on GPU benchmarks at same power consumption
* D̶u̶a̶l̶ ̶S̶i̶m̶
* +7% battery
* IP54 -> IP55 water resistance?
* And almost every other metric that I don't care much about e.g. Network, Display and Camera.
What's the F4 better at?
* Slightly smaller display 6.30 inch vs 6.46 inch
* ̶W̶e̶i̶g̶h̶t̶!̶ ̶I̶ ̶b̶e̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶F̶5̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶h̶e̶a̶v̶i̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶n̶ ̶F̶4̶ ̶(̶2̶2̶5̶ ̶g̶r̶a̶m̶s̶)̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶I̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶w̶e̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ ̶m̶e̶n̶t̶i̶o̶n̶e̶d̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶F̶5̶.̶
* No change in Audio jacks, both seem to still have a single USB C connector.
I guess I'll just suck it up and wait for the Fairphone 6 or potentially Fairphone 7 in 5 years.
EDIT: Two corrections. I wasn't aware F4 also has dual sim. Apparently F5 is lighter at 212 grams.
The battery already lasts two days under my usage model, and the phone still has a five year warranty and OS support for another three years. I see that Fairphone are still selling some repair parts for FP2 and FP3, so I expect to be able to repair my phone through that whole time period unless something weird happens.
The FP5 looks like a nice upgrade, but I don't feel short-changed: I got a new phone when my old one was failing, and it's not absolutely top-of-the-line, and that's fine. Like you, I'll think harder about the next round of upgrades (maybe to the FP6, maybe the FP7), and I'd love it if Fairphone were to be clearer about their release schedule, but I understand that they don't want to Osborne themselves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Computer_Corporation#T...
FP4 is also better at being €120 cheaper, and presumably €170 if they apply the same discount they did in April :) And I think it has dual SIM as well?
It STILL has no headphone jack. It STILL seems to be oversized. I kind of doubt that it'll feel much better in the hand (but we'll see).
Maybe the camera is that much better, but why couldn't they have sold an upgraded FP4? Every new model muddies the supply chain making it harder to support existing models, after all.
The FP5 is intended to keep their product modern to bring in new users.
Consider that the FP4 came out in 2021 and is supported through 2027. It's 2 years old now, which is fine for people who want to use it. They still have 5 years of life on it.
But if someone is considering ditching their old Pixel 4 which is no longer receiving updates, are they going to want to buy a phone which is already 2 years old? Probably not.
If Fairphone didn't release a new phone until the release cycle of the current one ended then the only option people would have is buying 6 year old phones.
They still have to make regular updates in order to attract new customers. They are banking on a customer base that does not feel the need to upgrade to the latest and greatest every 1-2 years.
Why can't you run that on the FP5? Claim not found in source.
Wait, what does an "N" column mean? Surely basics like the battery, audio, camera, and GPS don't not work at all.
If that's what this means, yeah I get that nobody should want to run that on this device. That's quite disappointing, but with the low volumes that FP is able to ship, I guess the volunteers on postmarket have to make choices
Edit: five tables further down, there's a legend. Indeed, battery etc. is not just not tested or something, but actually tested not working. Weird, you'd think the battery works regardless of what software it runs o.O
I liked the idea of Fairphone, but I was skittish about their ability to fund a team to keep up with the latest Android updates for the next several years.
Does anyone know how small players like this keep up with Android updates? I don't know much about how difficult it is to continue pushing Android updates out, but I assume it's at least somewhat difficult, as many of the major phone vendors do it so slowly and eventually stop after 2-3 years.
I realize those vendors have perverse incentives to stop updates to encourage customers to upgrade phones, but I assume some of it is legitimate difficulty of continuing to provide the updates.
On the one hand, they have proven themselves in the past with things like working with the community to get Android 10 ported to the Fairphone 2 [1].
On the other hand, they always seem to be pretty behind on security updates. They got particularly eviscerated by the GrapheneOS project lead [2].
My hot take is Fairphone is a pretty small company that is trying to fill too many niches at once. It's great that they're working on making the supply chain for gold less awful ([3]). It's also great that they're continuing to prove that repairable / user-upgradeable flagship(-ish) phones are possible. I originally chose Fairphone for those reasons, because they align with my values.
Ultimately, though, I want a phone that I can rely on to be rock solid, secure, and highly usable. It's the thing I carry with me everywhere and rely on in emergencies, etc. To that end I recently ordered a used Pixel 6 Pro and plan to switch to that + GrapheneOS in the near future. I hope that Fairphone continues to succeed and help reform the (completely awful, IMO) mobile handset industry.
[1]: https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/23/22798512/fairphone-2-and... [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/10b5x4n/has_any... [3]: https://www.fairphone.com/en/2021/11/30/fairtrade-hirose/
I wasn't aware of that post from Graphene, but oof does that make me want to stay away from Fairphone for a few years.
I'm in a similar boat to you. I ended up picking the Pixel 7a. I hadn't ever used Graphene, but I'm experimenting with it on my old Pixel 4a.
It's not extremely difficult (though Google makes it harder every year), but does require people dedicated to "simply" upgrading. A team of 10 of decent software engineers (juniors are okay as long as they have proper embedded systems education, and they aren't afraid of huge code bases) should be able to handle that. Rock-stars should be able to manage that single-handedly (again assuming they only do that).
That being said, for Fairphone 5, they are using a ""special chip"" for which Qualcomm will provide longer software support than they do for other chips (But I think they still need to extend upgrades themselves after Qualcomm stop). In this case, IMO, it's just a way for Qualcomm to make more money off long support. (The chip probably has some difference compared to standard Qualcomm smartphone SoC, because modern smartphone Qualcomm SoC may suicide itself pretty fast with a removable battery)
Fairphone do manage to keep up tho. The Fairphone 3 was updated to android 13 a few month ago.
https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/997918043739...
Depends on how you look at it. I'll focus on fingerprint here.
Sure, there are far more possible fingerprint features that can be identified for accept/decline decision "Does this match a registered fingerprint", than 1,0000 PIN combinations (4 digits).
But if the fingerprint reader is too lax in matching, it's possibly worse.
If you can crash the fingerprint reader system, which then accepts all future patterns, that's worse.
If you can trick the system into revealing all the biometric data it's collected, and then replay it directly without using the sensor using their debugging interface, that's worse.
That's not to say defaulting to PINs is or isn't the "least bad" option. Just that it's more complicated than the question makes it look.
There are other issues around your question in general that aren't particularly relevant in context:
You can't reasonably change or revoke your PIN.
Your device is likely covered in your fingerprints.
i can, have, and will
> Your device is likely covered in your fingerprints.
true, fingerprints are not (a) secret
I meant you can't reasonably change or revoke your fingerprints!
Changing your actual fingerprints, while possible, is usually painful and done accidentally.
(The best you can do is change from which fingers the prints will accepted. And at best, you only have a couple of handfuls of options there.)
Alternatively, Murena are selling FP5 with /e/OS pre-installed: https://murena.com/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena-fairpho...
I'm also quite fed up with the '...for a better planet' greenwash-posturing by any and all commercial actors so there's that as well.
This announcement makes me even more sure of my choice, because it seems Fairphone are starting to lose their way.
One of the reasons I really liked the company in the past was their commitment to extend the longevity of their flagships. They released a "plus upgrade" kit for both the FP2 and the FP3.
To see them release a whole new flagship only a year or so after the FP4 release is ... a shame.
Flatly put, their products aren't very good when you compare them to the "big" vendors like Samsung/Apple/Google. What differentiates them is their commitment to environmental sustainability, un-sucking the rare-metals supply chain, etc. If they're going to release a new flagship every year, how does that make them any better (from a sustainbility POV) to the morally and ethically bankrupt companies they're competing with?
Does the existence of a Fairphone 5 make any practical difference to an owner of an FP4? Or is it just the concern that some people will think, "Wah, this isn't the company's latest phone any more!" and upgrade sooner than they might otherwise?
Well obviously they can't back down on their promise to support FP4 for 5 years. But for example back in the FP2 era they went above and beyond and released Android 10 6 years after the release of the FP2. With more and more product lines to support, it seems less likely that such a thing would be feasible in future (limited resources and all that).
> Does the existence of a Fairphone 5 make any practical difference to an owner of an FP4? Or is it just the concern that some people will think, "Wah, this isn't the company's latest phone any more!" and upgrade sooner than they might otherwise?
A bit of both, I think.
The reality is a lot of consumers are still in the mindset that there's no problem with their individual behavior ("it's the fault of Exxon that our planet is doomed, not little ol' me buying a new phone every year!"). So Fairphone is enabling that bad behaviour, here.
Also, by matching the release cadence of the other companies, they're sending a signal that such a thing is okay (I think it isn't). Releasing "upgrade kits" that encourage consumers to extend the life of their handset by another couple of years, is a very different signal.
https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360047776791...
Also a different form factor, but look at what Framework laptops are doing. You can upgrade every part, including the mainboare, individually. If it's possible for an ultrabook form factor, it should be possible for a slate handset form factor (IMO)
So it is the individual's fault, except it's not the individual's fault?
Sustainability-wise, not really. My Fairphone 2 is running out, so it's nice to be able to buy a phone that's not two years old already.
The FP5 isn't for owners of an FP4.
By removing many reasons for you to buy a new smartphone every 3 years: - when your screen breaks, you won't have to pay the price of a new smartphone to replace it - your apps won't stop working because they want the shiniest OS you don't have (because you'll have it) - when you're out of storage because apps will have inflated 5 times again, you'll be able to extend storage - they give you financial incentive to keeping your device (see their subscription model) -- and they give themselves the incentive to make the longest-living product! - when your battery gets lower charges (which I believe they already efforts to make slower)
Even if you want to buy a new fairphone in 3 years for a shinier camera, your previous fairphone will still be perfectly usable, and still be repairable for a long time.
I agree that it's a bit sad they don't have "plus upgrades", but reducing their work to just the plus upgrades is very extreme.
Also I agree that releasing a new device every year doesn't exactly sound right, but at work we work a huge lot on sustainability (for money reasons), and the conclusion remains that we need a new device every year. Basically the reasoning is that we can't foresee 10 years ahead what will make current devices obsolete. Maybe RAM price will plunge and all devices will have ten times the amount of RAM (and apps will eat ten times more RAM). Maybe some stupid instruction-set will become mandatory. Maybe apps will no longer be usable on sRGB screen. Maybe /that/ Vulkan extension that requires specific hardware will be used by Unity and thus breaking all new games. So one way to reduce the risk (as in total cost of obsolescence), is to make new products regularly, so the amount of devices in production with obsolete hardware is reduced.
I'm currently leasing my Fairphone 4 from Commown, so I'm fairly sure it will go on to live a healthy and productive life elsewhere. I also purchased a used Pixel 6 Pro from eBay.
As per my comment elsewhere in this post, I'm switching away from Fairphone because I care more about the security and software-level ownership of my device. If GrapheneOS had support for Fairphone, I would have stuck with my FP4 for many years to come.
> ... most straightforward ROMs I've used ...
ahem I believe GrapheneOS is an OS, and not a ROM... The project founder really wants you to use the "right" terminology: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33567842 ;)
So, I'm afraid I'm sticking with my Sony for now :/
The Galaxy M20 retails at a third of the price of the FP4...
If you're willing to go for a subpar screen replacement I suppose that's cheaper, but the two products serve completely different markets. A promise to keep a stock of replacement parts comes with higher prices, stripped screens from Chinese recyclers can sell replacement screens for much cheaper as long as supplies last.
Which IP category does "water-proof" mean? I'm not an expert.
Usually, you'll want IP X6 to begin calling it water-proof.
I've had a Fairphone 3 since its release, have cycled (& walked) in the rain plenty (I live in Ireland) and have not had a single issue of any kind. I've always presumed IP ratings were for more extreme water-related use than rain (accidental drop in puddle, momentary underwater snaps, etc.). I've never had water damage to any phone I've owned from rain, going back long before IP ratings were a thing.
Since owning it, the phone froze on me twice, once during the latest system update. Other than that, the SW seems solid. I've had an issue where the bottom SW buttons would disappear and not come back, but turns out, they come back with a swipe up.
I don't particularly enjoy being in the walled gardens of Google, but feel that Apple is no better. Hopefully the EU regulation comes quick to allow me to install 3rd-party apps.
In a perfect world, I'd be able to root the phone and still be able to use the banking app, but that won't happen ever.
EDIT: By 3rd-party I mean apps from third-party app stores/package managers. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
You.. can't install 3rd party apps? Really? Are you sure?
I'm probably going to switch to LineageOS at some point, but I just wasn't in the mood for to go out of my way and set it up (even if I've been using LineageOS extensively on all phones I got beforehand).
Might give them a go.
As in, after exiting a fullscreen application it got stuck in fullscreen mode?
Note that while it's not entirely out of Google's walled gardens, there's the "degoogled" /e/OS that is a Fairphone partner: https://e.foundation/e-os/
Also: https://gitlab.com/postmarketOS/pmaports/-/merge_requests/43...
But you can do that already as well. There are commercial app stores like Amazon's, and there's F-Droid which works like a package manager for open source apps.
Also there was this recently hot patched screen sensitive reduction for touch (where they wanted to fix some "screen ghost" issues) and you now have to press slightly more than necessary.
And then there are still problems with dual sim (not being able to see that phones come in from the other sim when you are on call) and many more (tiny) issues.
And yes, I can confirm that the HW seems to be robust. I also don't have a case only a protective glas.
The walled gardens could be avoided as there is official support for other OSes, I think calyxos and /e/os which themselves seem to support living without Google.
> According to the company, increasing the lifespan of a phone by two years reduces CO₂ emissions by 30%.[4]
i can't help but feel like i'm being lied to. cutting (a portion of) consumer smartphone emissions by 30% strikes me as an irrelevant drop in the bucket.
companies hyping up how moral/virtuous they are in order to _sell products_ to a compassionate corner of a market always come off as disingenuous to me.
i would rather fairphone just focused on lifespan and repairability & left the "saving the environment" spin completely alone. it's fine to target using conflict-free minerals and reduce carbon emissions - but marketing that as an advantage of buying the phone is really slimy.
maybe i lucked out with the phone i chose, but what it offered for under 500 is still phones struggle to do 4+ years later (e.g. 4k 60fps recordings, baring the quality matter). meanwhile, this one is starting with an enterprise version of a dated midrange for a processor.
while i keep respecting the mission they've managed to maintain, the oneplus-like price creep and catching up to the rest approach is not for everyone. but what you get is hard to argue if you'd *want* to use a phone like this after 8 years.
also the audience that would commit to this phone also tends to be the most demanding, as you can see from other comments. i personally would've loved dp out over usb-C.
it is indeed a tough market and i wish them the best.
I'm not sure how reliable these benchmark are and they don't indicate anything about actual power consumption or efficiency. I wonder if there are good and in-depth reviews for mobile CPUs.
Edit: ah, looks like they already do: https://murena.com/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena-fairpho...
Note that it does come with some markup and a degoogled OS.
Zen phone 10
End of list
I quite literally do not care about waterproofing or IP ratings or whatever because the few times I've gotten my phone almost seriously water damaged they've never died.
I think it's pretty clear that most people do not care about a headphone jack, but do care about water resistance ratings.
By the way, I wish there was a trustworthy, technical investigation or study on why android slow down after a few years, what's the root cause, and how it can be justified.
Deleting a bunch of unused apps will quickly bring a slow Android system back to life. You can usually avoid this problem by looking for paid apps that aren't full of trackers and ads.
If you're dealing with a slow phone, there is a wide variety of dev tools you can use to see what's going on. dumpsys will show you things like timers and memory allocations. It can also show you global or app specific battery drain statistics. Procstats will show you what apps used how much CPU over a specified period of time. Battery Historian will let you drill down into battery drain issues.
In practice, you just need to remove that weather app you installed three years ago, though.
I had several phones that turned to a halt for no real good reason.
Maybe it's the fault of the phone manufacturer and how it installs android, but to me it is still somewhat the fault of Android as a system and how it's designed.
I have never used an Apple phone.
Some apps have been rewritten from native code into Flutter/Jetpack Compose, heavily taxing the GPU (because modern phones, even cheap ones, have very powerful yet efficient GPUs in comparison to their predecessors); those run slower, but that's mostly only noticeable on older devices as newer devices get tested on. Then again, if I were to install the old APKs on my current phone, they would be blazing fast in comparison to their modern equivalent. Phones didn't need 6GB of RAM a few years ago and app developers have long stopped caring about performance, it seems. Downloading old APKs from apkmirror helps sometimes.
When nothing else helps, factory resetting the phone can sometimes help but with modern Android I don't think that's much of an improvement anymore.
I do have an old tablet with worn-down flash, but my OnePlus One still runs as fast as the day I got it (I think it may actually run faster because of ART upgrades?). It's no powerhouse by modern phone standards, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Man that sucks.
using an iphone for 5y+ and have never recieved or sent an imessage.
In my experience, much more difficult problem is convincing people to install one of those to communicate with you. Network effects and the power of defaults and all.
Apple could be murdering puppies but man, their touchpad is just 2% more pleasant than the competition, sorry! My hands are tied!
https://ploum.net/2021-09-30.html
How is that ecological ?
The replies answer your question
Fp never afaik promised a modular phone, just a phone with support for more years and easy to repair, not easy to upgrade. Fp4 is directed at new users, not at users of fp3, but you can still(afaik) send them fp3 to recycle and take a new fp4 if you want
Modular phone is a wet dream for many, and it can be cool, but afaik bc of complexity it remains just a dream