Burning Man attendees roadblocked by climate activists | Hacker News Reader

Burning Man attendees roadblocked by climate activists

theguardian.com

30 pointsmr_toad39 comments

  > Burning Man organizers say they are making an effort to be
  > greener. In their 2023 sustainability report, festival
  > organizers celebrated their recent successes: launching pilot
  > programs for solar panels, offsetting their emissions through
  > purchasing carbon credits, and supporting sustainability-minded
  > camps as they work towards their goal of becoming
  > carbon-negative by 2030.

What a crock of shit!

They're literally constructing and deconstructing a shanty-town capped at 80,000 people, hauling all that material, in and out (what they don't just burn/explode), every.year.

When will this circus get its act together and just build an actual city? This whole event is wasteful down to its core, it's literally the whole point. Leave No Trace means Haul it all in, and Haul it all out. Buy some land and put down some roots and skin in the game you clowns.

I agree with you, but I hope you realize that your request is both impossible and illegal; Burning Man has always been held on BLM land, and so even if they wanted to purchase a parcel of land to party every year, it would have to be somewhere way different from where it is now.

Burning Man's origins are not BLM land, it evolved into the black rock city it is today. This shit started in SF[0] and kept outgrowing its location.

There are so many attendees burning(heh) so many resources on this event every year, if they just got their shit together they could buy enough desert land for an actual city.

But that's not a fun childish party with no obligations, that's adulting. It's asking too much of clowns who can't even prevent their furry trikes and hexayurt insulation panels from falling off their overheating RVs.

I don't expect them to improve. It's just useful to imagine what it looks like for these people to actually clean up their act. And it doesn't involve erecting and tearing down black rock city every year. It involves making it permanent and solving Hard Problems.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cacophony_Society#San_Francisc...

In all honesty, the kind of people that attend Burning Man, are exactly the ones that spend the rest of the year preaching about how concerned they are about environmental causes, and how important it is to tax the working man even more to face the climate apocalypse (or whatever hyperbolic term they are using now).

And for that, I'm immensely pleased their deep hipocrisy is being called out with this roadblock.

Next they should find a way to block Di Caprio and Bill Gates to get on their personal jets.

> Rising temperatures in Black Rock Desert, which hit a record 103F [sic] at last year’s edition, have led to an increasing reliance on air conditioning fueled by generators.

> ”... But more private jets than ever are flying to the Burn. We’re burning propane for fun. The air-conditioned domes are getting bigger every year.”

How common are these? There are plenty of results if I search for "burning man air conditioning", but is it 1% of people or more like 10%?

Example [1] has someone driving a "heavy as fuck" 3.2kW solar array there from Canada, and someone else renting a refrigerated container.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/BurningMan/comments/8oxwts/advice_o...

TBH it reads somewhat like an OG Roots Revival of Burning Man VS third Gen Trust Fundies:

    In recent years, Burning Man has drifted from its hippy roots and become better known for luxury RVs, wild orgies, and Silicon Valley bros.

    Protestors from the Seven Circles –a coalition of activists representing the climate groups Extinction Rebellion, Rave Revolution, and Scientist Rebellion – demanded that Burning Man ban private jets and single-use plastics, as well as unlimited generator and propane use.

What would Mary Grauberger and Larry Harvey have to say about the "radical self-expression" of the climate activist protesters?

On brand or not?

I went last year and if there were any truth their "wild orgies" claim, I assure you I'd be going again this year.

Yeah, you probably want a Burning Swan event for that, or better yet a full blown Bachelor and Spinsters Inseminators Ball .. bit rough about the edges but all about the breeding:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH_RWBSQ9ic

I find this as the least disagreeable road block protest in history. Blocking people going to somewhere they don't need to. Seems entirely reasonable mode of protest.

It is not like they stop people who need to go to work to make living or ambulances with patients inside.

If I had to guess, they were blocking hundreds of people not going to Burning Man. You can't pop onto another road or take a detour in the Southwest, so often times, there will be only one road that goes to EVERYTHING, and if it's blocked off, you'll have to drive three hours just to get on the alternative route.

Yup, we don't want people doing anything outside of working and existing if it causes any CO2 usage.

"going to somewhere they don't need to" - that's a pretty poor threshold for whether a protest is reasonable or not.

They were also blocking people who needed to go to work. That highway was not built to service Black Rock City.

Intension: save the environment

Outcome: frustrate burners into potentially off-roading all over the desert ecosystem outside of a designated area. Idling longer which increases emissions over their normal journey.

Making some burners behave even worse is a rounding error in the event's overall impact.

But visibly and impactfully protesting their waste en-route to their week of tripping balls might actually cause some reflection and long-term changed behaviors. Set and setting, right?

The event itself is a rounding error on things that actually cause a climate impact. The activists are wasting their time.

> The event itself is a rounding error on things that actually cause a climate impact. The activists are wasting their time.

Through network effects if you could actually affect the behavior of these folks it could move some needles. And when it's pretty much a certainty they're are about to go squeegee their third eye, we're talking about a particularly susceptible group WRT changing their minds[0].

I think there are worse ways to waste your time as an activist.

[0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36613747-how-to-change-y...

Yes, I suppose they could blockade a street in front of an urban hospital. Or a have a sit-in across an active freight rail crossing.

Yes, but we are talking about the climate impact of Burning Man and the protests.. so... mission accomplished?

> Intension: save the environment

It is a bummer that climate change will not be averted during Burning Man this year, as was the goal of this protest. You make an interesting point that since climate change will likely continue into September at least, it will paradoxically be the fault of the protesters.

Too bad that they didn’t set a more reasonable goal of “piss off burners to the extent that maybe fewer decide to come back next time”, at least they might’ve been able to call this a win.

Wrong again, the intention is to denounce the impact of burning man and force it to reduce. Publicity, good or bad, remains a very effective means.

...and, that attempt at force was then met with an opposing force; but not before infuriating large numbers of people who might otherwise have given some thought to the original point.

Think Harder, Homer.

You really think the orgs don't know that ?

You really think they expected ever festival-goer to suddenly realize the errors of their ways and go home ?

You really think that now, no one is going to think about this story ?

What is your background on activism that makes you say all that ?

I'm sure that they never expected their disruption to actually change anyone's mind. Of course, they're never going to admit this, and will always claim to be "peacefully raising awareness" or somesuch. They won't say: "we're gonna go irritate hundreds of people, then get arrested on camera for publicity".

People will think about this story-they'll be thinking about how to donate to the Paiute Tribal Police auxiliary fund so the guys in the truck can have a cookout after work.

It's kind of wild that the cops showed up ready to kill people for sitting down. Did disgruntled attendees exaggerate the danger when they called in (i.e. SWATing)?

My understanding is that dispatch were told by a caller that someone had a gun. It might be best to wait for the 911 calls to be aired to get a better idea of how this unfolded. There could be trolls on both sides of it.

I don't understand what activists expect to achieve from blocking roads.

The people being affected aren't going to stop and think "wow, you're right, capitalism is killing the environment, I need to become a marxist". They're gonna think "I wish the police would come throw these bozos in jail (and maybe beat them up first to discourage others)". I would love to see any reasonable study indicating that blocking traffic has any positive outcomes.

It seems to me like nonviolent terrorism, e.g. "we're gonna deprive you of your rights until you support our political cause".

Well, it's a pre cursor to much more efficient autonomous drones blow up pipelines and liqgas shops to raise prices for carbs death spiral protest.

Its a miracle and speaks for the carb cartel and the movement sthat in a world of cardboard drones and pipeline we are not already at nordstrean all the things.

> I don't understand what activists expect to achieve from blocking roads.

The goal is to get attention for their cause. Seems to be working successfully considering this is in the news.

I see this comment all the time. In fact practically every protest ever, there's a load of people who show up and go "Don't know why you're even bothering, it's not going to achieve anything".

There's two things to say in response: Firstly, there is a long established history of non-violent protest achieving change. Secondly, what is your actual proposal to people to get the change they want instead of these protests - and are you confident that these people aren't already pursuing those avenues.

Uhh, bad together, form a PAC, and use lobbyists to distribute money to politicians that support their aims?

I am sympathetic to people who peacefully protest and without disrupting others, or who get permits for expected disruption so that accommodations can be made for affected people.

I’m also sympathetic to people who refuse to comply with unfair laws, e.g. Rosa Parks.

What I’m not sympathetic to is people who intentionally try to torment others under the guise of protest.

They got what they wanted, which was to annoy everyone, and to be subjected to forcible removal by the authorities.

This allows them to feel as though they were suffering for their righteous cause. Being arrested whilst making oneself the target of obloquy from an otherwise insouciant public is deeply satisfying to a certain type of narcissist.

Knowing that the act made them hated is all the reward they need. Fixing the climate this way is a fantasy ideology, much like Bin Laden blowing up the WTC to stop American imperialism, or J6 trespassers shitting on Pelosi's desk to protest an election. It's not the cause, it's the people.

This tickles me deeply.

If boycotting a human gathering due to its attendees being entitled asshats became a thing, I doubt there would be many events I could attend.

We are all devo.

Having gone last year for the first time in my life and at very high financial costs, I can tell you that blocking the path near the end of my massive journey from Philadelphia to Black Rock City would not arouse any sympathy to their cause. I don't care what the cause is. I was already livid by the time I crossed where it appears the protestors sat because of all the other things that I couldn't find anyone to blame on.

This whole blocking traffic protest trend only arouses hatred to both the protestors and their cause in all instances and it is not something Gandhi or MLK did because there is nothing linking what their method of protest to what they say they want to achieve. Protestors did it in Philadelphia, too, to protest some nazi-sympathizing group speaking and all it did is make every inconvenienced driver that learned what happened much more nazi-sympathetic. That's how it works. That's why you don't hear about famous non-violent icons doing this crap.

I sometimes wonder if the Just Stop Oil and similar road-block, disruptive protests are slyly funded by the oil companies to increase hatred towards the entire climate activism movement. I can't see how this sort of protests can earn any sympathy from ordinary people towards their cause. Climate activists will be seen as unreasonable nut jobs who need to be dealt with with a heavy hand

Let’s be real. Actions against climate change are even more inconvenient than a road blockade; if certain kind of people are inconvenienced enough because of this, what makes anyone think they are sympathetic to the cause?

Combating climate change is not drawing cute turles.

People might tolerate some inconvenience if there are rational reasons for it to exist.

Sitting on a road is a publicity stunt. If it doesn’t have the imagined effect isn’t wouldn’t it be counterproductive?

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