Tell HN: Edge has added rounded corners to all web pages

A screenshot and explanation of how to turn this off can be found here [0].

> Edge is breaking this cardinal rule: Browser chrome belongs to the browser, but the content area belongs to the application alone.

It's funny, for me this is not at all what the web is about. I see CSS styles as at best a suggestion for how the website would like to be rendered, but the browser is fundamentally a user agent that can render stuff however the user likes. If you don't like how Edge renders things, you can always switch to a different browser or change the settings.

Web applications should be designed with this in mind: control of the client experience is in the hands of the user or the user's agent. When a web application is designed this way, it is natively the most accessible kind of app that can exist, usable with a screen reader, terminal GUI, mobile, desktop, or even a scriptable web driver. In contrast, web apps that obsess over having minute control over every detail of the presentation tend to be clunky, nonresponsive and inaccessible.

In my mind, the more heterogeneous web browsers are, the more web applications are forced to handle for different configurations, and the better the ecosystem will be overall. For once I think Microsoft is doing something web-related that I actually approve of.

[0] https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-edge-will-let-you-disa...

> Web applications should be designed with this in mind: control of the client experience is in the hands of the user or the user's agent. ... web apps that obsess over having minute control over every detail of the presentation tend to be clunky, nonresponsive and inaccessible.

You are right; I agree.

However, the web browser designs tend to make things difficult, and the specifications of W3C can also make things difficult because they are excessively complicated.

> It's funny, for me this is not at all what the web is about. I see CSS styles as at best a suggestion for how the website would like to be rendered, but the browser is fundamentally a user agent that can render stuff however the user likes. If you don't like how Edge renders things, you can always switch to a different browser or change the settings.

I agree but this is something that Google is trying to break with WEI by banning modified or "untrustworthy" browsers.

I dont allow other people to set my fonts. Nor do I allow them to go under a certain font size, and if the colour choices suck too badly I use reader mode.

I have set up so that I can disable any highjacking of scrolling or the back button.

Very rarely do I find that the UI elevates the content to any extent. Most of the time I am just annoyed, and at least once a day I think to myself that the website I am visiting would be better if it served text files over FTP.

> It's funny, for me this is not at all what the web is about. I see CSS styles as at best a suggestion for how the website would like to be rendered, but the browser is fundamentally a user agent that can render stuff however the user likes.

I know it's been a while, but it's like people don't remember how much iOS Safari just decided "this is how the web works now" when "retina" became a thing.

That option doesn't exist for me. Instead of "Use rounded corners for browser tabs", my Edge settings simply says "Try the new look and feel of Microsoft Edge". Lol. I know it's the same setting, because if I click the thumbs down button next to the question "Are you satisfied with the new look and feel of Micrsoft Edge?", one of the reasons that pops up when you thumbs down is regarding the rounded versus square corners.

As another note, I've noticed that YouTube has suddenly started rounding the corners on its videos.

> I've noticed that YouTube has suddenly started rounding the corners on its videos.

It started a couple months ago with thumbnails. Apparently the infection is spreading. :-/

I immediately turn this "feature" off. You can fix it via uBlock Origin:

  ! Disable rounded corners on Youtube videos
  youtube.com##ytd-player:style(border-radius:0 !important)
  ! Search/sidebar previews
  youtube.com##.ytd-thumbnail:style(border-radius:0 !important)
  ! End-of-playback video grid
  youtube.com##.ytp-videowall-still-image:style(border-radius:0 !important)
  ! Video links within videos
  www.youtube.com##.ytp-ce-large-round:style(border-radius:0 !important)
  ! Seek bar live preview
  youtube.com##.ytp-rounded-tooltip.ytp-preview:style(border-radius:0 !important)
  youtube.com##.ytp-rounded-tooltip.ytp-preview .ytp-tooltip-bg:style(border-radius:0 !important)
  
  ! Bonus: Disable rounded corners on Reddit
  ! Old version, previews
  reddit.com##.thumbnail:style(border-radius: 0 !important)
  ! New version, media
  reddit.com##.xs\:rounded-\[16px\]:style(border-radius:0 !important)
  ! New version, previews
  reddit.com##.rounded-\[8px\]:style(border-radius:0 !important)

That’s not the rule I want browsers to follow. I want the browser to act as my agent, following my preferences in all things. I set a minimum font size, I control which fonts pages may use, I control when they may run scripts, when they may have videos or sound, what form controls (buttons, text inputs, etc) look like, when they may load content from third–party domains, etc, etc.

Web application developers should not complain when a web browser changes the look or feel of their application, even if the browser makes super weird choices like putting rounded corners on the viewport. If the user doesn’t like it they’ll tell the browser vender. The web designer doesn’t get a vote.

That sounds idealistic, but not practical. Users want application developers to design applications for them, not use the browser settings to design & customize the application for themselves, because most users aren't designers, and even if they are, they don't want to spend the time.

It's not idealistic to expect an application to adapt to a user's device, it's called accessibility and it's the law. Some users will change the font size because they can't see well, others will interact exclusively with a screen reader, others will need to change your colors because they're color blind. Still others will try to automate their tasks with scripts and macros.

The web is the most accessible platform that exists if it's used right, where "used right" means embracing the fact that the user's browser (with all of its customizations) has ultimate control over the user's experience with your application. If you want ultimate control you want a native app.

> It's not idealistic to expect an application to adapt to a user's device, it's called accessibility and it's the law.

What does that have to do with rounded corners?

I'm referring to OP's list of things they change:

> I want the browser to act as my agent, following my preferences in all things. I set a minimum font size, I control which fonts pages may use, I control when they may run scripts, when they may have videos or sound, what form controls (buttons, text inputs, etc) look like, when they may load content from third–party domains, etc, etc.

Some of these are privacy considerations, but most of them are also accessibility-related for some people. Ensuring fonts are in readable ranges for a given person, preventing autoplay, changing form controls to stand out more—all of these are things that people do to accommodate for disabilities.

This one thing that bugs you (rounded corners) is an aesthetic change, but the fact remains that you should expect browsers to modify your designs to meet user needs. If this serves as a wakeup call to designers that they can't count on pixel-perfect designs, good.

You are conflating design/aesthetic choices with accessibility. The browser designer is enforcing their aesthetic choices (which happens to be ugly and inconsistent) on their users. That's OK if it only impacts the browser chrome. If it impacts the content area, then the browser designer should defer to the application designer.

> you should expect browsers to modify your designs to meet user needs.

As a user, I don't want browser messing with the application design. There is no way to turn off these "enhancements".

> There is no way to turn off these "enhancements".

It sounds like there will be. In the meantime, Edge is not the only browser available to you, and you can always switch.

> If it impacts the content area, then the browser designer should defer to the application designer.

No. I want application designers to always be aware that their designs for web applications will be modified by the clients and cannot be expected to match their Figma sketches. Web applications are guests on the user's computer, and if Edge having rounded corners helps drive that home, I'm very content with that!

If those are user's preferences then that's OK! But they are not. Can we all agree that having top-left corner be rounded, while leaving top-right corner square is just dumb? Can we all agree that a white border on a dark-mode page is stupid as heck? This is what happens when browser makers interfere with web application design.

No, I don't want to go around dividing those things into “accessibility” and “merely aesthetic” buckets, and then only allow the things in the first bucket. For one thing, some of them are both.

I can and do apply custom style sheets to all kinds of web pages, which make all kinds of changes that the web designer might not like. Some of them improve the aesthetics according to my idiosyncratic preferences, others improve my ability to access the content. And of course it should go without saying that I remove all the ads and other nonsense too.

If you are speaking as a web designer, then you don’t get to complain about rounded corners on the viewport. Or about any other thing which the browser does to your page, even if you think of your page as an application.

If you are speaking simply as a user of Edge, then you should complain to Microsoft if those rounded corners offend your sense of aesthetics. Or use a different browser. I recommend Firefox! Firefox is great.

Of course I get to complain about it! That's the only way to bring about change! If enough people complain about it, and I think there will be, Microsoft will fix it.

> No, I don't want to go around dividing those things into “accessibility” and “merely aesthetic” buckets, and then only allow the things in the first bucket. For one thing, some of them are both.

I agree, and want to allow everything. Actually, I think perhaps all of them are both, and anyways the end user should control and configure all of them.

> If you are speaking as a web designer, then you don’t get to complain about rounded corners on the viewport.

I think the web designer may have a reasonable complaint about the browser doing that by default with no option to disable it, since that makes it difficult for everyone. However, the user has a better and even more valid complaint about this, especially if it cannot be turned off. However, if the end user adds the rounded corners deliberately then it is not for the web designer to complain about the user's preferences.

> As a user, I don't want browser messing with the application design. There is no way to turn off these "enhancements".

Then use a browser which doesn't do that? If other people for some reason think it looks cool--and, despite designers claiming the opposite any chance they get, most normal people actually seem to enjoy unique spins that lead to inconsistent results--then let them? If I think it looks cooler to kind of hack every website into rendering with tints of red and you think it looks ugly... to bad?

> Users want application developers to design applications for them, not use the browser settings to design & customize the application

True, but web devs tend to do such a poor job of it that being able to use browser settings to try to mitigate that is very important.

But the underlying point isn't even that. The underlying point is that the browser is a user agent and as such, should have the last word in terms of how the content is being presented. If a browser is making a poor choice, then the beef is properly between the end user and the browser maker more than between the web dev and the browser maker.

I agree, although the browser should include appropriate settings/functions for the user to configure all of the things that you mention (and others as well, such as maximum font size, request headers, file format and protocol handlers, etc), and should have suitable defaults.

The user ought to have the ability to turn off the rounded corners (fortunately it seems there is such an option, so that would be good), and it also probably ought to be off by default.

> If the user doesn’t like it they’ll tell the browser vender.

Let's be realistic: Microsoft, Google, and Mozilla aren't listening. They'll cram all sorts of ugly annoying stuff in your face and laugh at your pitiful forum threads begging for a setting to turn it all off.

By this logic we may as well go back into plaintext Netscape sites and let the browser determine everything about how we see the content. What is the limit to what the browser is allowed to do, and where do your preferences end and the browser's preferences that you can't change begin?

It also provides this unwanted bullshit like coupon notifications and buy now pay later scams. I know it can be turned off but it should never have been included. Really, I don't know why people still use it. If you want chrome, just use the real thing.

The only reason I use it is Microsoft lobbied my work to make it the "official" browser. Not sure why they're so proud of their copy of Google's stuff with a thin layer of Microsoft veneer. I don't find it a strong selling point of a software company when they have to admit someone else does a better job.

Personally I just use Firefox and love it.

>The only reason I use it is Microsoft lobbied my work to make it the "official" browser

The reason is that Edge works with Azure Entra SSO out of the box, syncs settings and everything with a Microsoft account, integrates with smartscreen and defender, works the best with all office 365 apps, Bing now searches Office 365 etc.

ALSO the settings control is offers over GPO and Intune.

No "lobbying" needed, sadly.

(I use a wombo combo of browsers at work and at home...)

> Edge is breaking this cardinal rule: Browser chrome belongs to the browser, but the content area belongs to the application alone.

I think the end user should have 100% control or access to it. I do not think this would be an issue if this was a niche browser that the user needs to seek out. Or if browser usage was spread across tens of browsers instead of 2-3 or some other form of highly competitive market with users willing to switch at a moments notice.

So they finally found that "better experience" that comes with using the Edge browser according to Microsoft. Of course the ungrateful masses reject it.

> But this latest change takes the cake. It is ugly. If the page has a scrollbar at document level, the web page will get rounded corner only at the top left, not the top right, thus losing symmetry. For example, go to CNN or Github.

Neither of these pages has rounded corners for me on 116.0.1938.62 on macOS. What platform are you on?

(To be pedantic: The bottom left corner is rounded when not full-screen because it's a window corner, but that's normal and happens with all browsers.)

Doesn't macOS round the corners of application windows, including browsers?

This generally applies to outer window borders, but not to the content area.

Interestingly, Edge doesn't apply rounded corners to its own content presentation, either, as can be seen in the screenshots provided in a page (Neowin) linked by another comment, here.

To me, it appears much so as if MS is making a serious attempt to differentiate between own and foreign content, which includes a rather surprising comeback of visually prominent frame/window borders, which are marked by round corners in this particular design language. (If this is a good thing or not is left to the beholder, but it's at least interesting.)

I not support what MS do, but you can actually disable all of this.

Rounded corner: about:config search for rounded

Image menu: edge://settings/appearance/hoverMenu

YouTube has now started rounding corners of the video player at full-screen for some users. My friends have shared screenshots of this but I am yet to encounter it outside of mobile where my phone screen is already rounded.

I seriously thought the round corners trend was dead already. Why are they trying to force it back?

This isn't new

https://www.neowin.net/news/get-ready-for-more-rounded-corne...

so is Opera (on linux).. some 3-4px artificial frame-of-theirs that does not come or be controllable by window-manager.

Why? To look rounded on rounded phones?

All these "pink-fluffy-unicorn" looks-feels of all recent techie stuff start to make me sick..

I'm happy with the rounded corners in Opera (although I rarely see them since I leave the window maximized most of the time); in face, I would love to see KDE Plasma adopt the same strategy of rounding all four corners of windows. It looks nice, and Windows 11 has reinforced that it can work fine without getting in the user's way (although Windows 11 rounded them too much, and now it's hard to resize windows easily).

> I would love to see KDE Plasma adopt the same strategy of rounding all four corners of windows.

Only if it can be disabled. I would hate this quite a lot.

i cant fucking take it anymore

https://imgur.com/PCSrpsf