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Comment by IshKebab | Hacker News Reader

> it's just that most users really have separated in their minds (not surprising due to history) that apps come from app stores, and the browser is used for websites.

Right, because for a very long time (and maybe still) PWAs have been much closer to terrible websites than good apps. They generally don't have the same UX properties as real apps.

Remember when the iPhone first came out and web apps were the only option and they sucked balls? That never really changed. People still find mobile sites with maps that are impossible to use. They don't expect that from app store apps.

And if it's just a web site, why do you need to "install" it? A link is surely sufficient?

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But nowadays you can't really see the difference between good webapps and native apps. We also migrated our native apps to full SPA apps. And really it makes development so much easier. The apps we have are relatively simple without fancy stuff. But the css render engine is fast. Even on Android. And we reduced some of our apps from 30mbs of java code to 150kb of java/typescript. Plus as a bonus we can have a website and serve ios as well. For us there is really no reason to go back. Sidenote: some parts of the app are still native. Ads, Auth and analytics

Thanks for posting, I think this is a great point. Web tech has advanced to the point that a large swath of apps can be implemented as PWAs with no loss of experience (though last I checked iOS was still holding things back).

This isn't true for all apps, but with the notable exception of games, I'd say it applies to most: banking/finance apps, social media apps, travel/airline/booking apps, etc.

> Ads, Auth and analytics

So two of the three parts that are native are there to make it a worse user experience?

If you seriously think analytics makes for a worse user experience, then you're speaking out of ignorance.

Analytics tell developers exactly where bugs and crashes occur.

And on which devices or versions of the OS the problem is.

Without analytics it would take weeks/months to figure out exactly what line of code is causing the issue. Heck, the developers might NEVER KNOW that the software has an issue.

Apps would just keep crashing on users for years. And developers would have no idea why users were abandoning their product.

Nobody that has any idea what they're talking about would say that analytics makes for a worse user experience.

But if he needed to have ads, what are the chances that analytics were added to “measure engagement”?

The native ads module on both Android and iOS can do that...so, I dunno, ZERO?

> And if it's just a web site, why do you need to "install" it? A link is surely sufficient?

The point is that there are apps that can pretty much be built entirely using web technologies as PWAs, but in doing so they are no longer "just web sites" and they need functionality of installed apps, like notifications. For example, most banking apps on Android could be entirely rewritten as PWAs, but they'd need to make use of things like notifications (I don't want a random website sending me notifications, but I DO want notifications of activity on my bank account) and camera APIs (e.g. for mobile check deposit).

Both of these features are available in browsers these days.

Well, obviously all the features that are available to PWAs are available in browsers - a browser is the thing that executes a PWA to begin with.

It basically is just a difference in use case and how most people thing about "apps" vs. "websites". If I have a long term relationship with a business, and I access its functionality frequently, I'd rather have it as an app on my homescreen.

You might as well be arguing that people could just go to the bank instead of using technology.

There are benefits to having something installed. You can give anything installed the ability to send notifications.

Having to manage that permission on a per-website basis is way above the tech ability of most users.

But this is apparently difficult for "tech literate" people to grasp.

I find bank apps to be the least flexible about notifications; there's no way to get them to use app notifications for a lot of things they insist on using email and/or SMS for.

The last thing being the worst as SMS 2FA is so insecure, but SMS of your bank deposits isn't much better.

Just looking through the apps I currently have open… Bank app, chat app, maps, Tile, YouTube and a weather app. Only one of them is actually doing anything that wouldn’t fit a PWA. So why are they apps, not a collection of links?

I would say only the weather and bank apps would be really equal as a PWA.

Maps require complex gestures and advanced graphics and UIs that would never work well as a PWA. Try maps.google.com. Its nothing like the Google Maps app. Plus Android Auto integration.

Tile probably needs pretty deep Bluetooth integration and background processing that the web doesn't provide.

YouTube can do things like PiP that you can't do on the web.

PiP, the one feature of youtube that I did not want (in the majority of cases) but got anyway.

edit: Sorry for the snark. I think that maps are probably doable with pointer events (https://caniuse.com/?search=pointer) and Android is doing pretty well in terms of Web Bluetooth https://github.com/WebBluetoothCG/web-bluetooth/blob/main/im...

Good points. Additionally, PiP is also possible in most browsers.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Picture-in-...

I use YouTube in a browser on my phone specifically because it has PiP without having to pay Google monthly for the privilege.

If I request the Desktop version of YouTube, where Google doesn't hide their own Mini player button, the video continues to play in the corner.

Mapbox.js is also pretty capable.

Not really sure what you're on about TBH.

> And if it's just a web site, why do you need to "install" it? A link is surely sufficient?

Really? You don't understand the value in having the PWA appear as a native app icon alongside everything else on the device?

You can do that with a link. Just click the three dots then "Add to home screen".

Yes, "Add to home screen" is exactly how you install a PWA to your phone =)

It's a bit confusing, isn't it? "Add to home screen" makes it seem like you're just adding a link, but it's installing the PWA, possibly enabling notifications, and etc.

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