Comment by Pooge | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Pooge | Hacker News Reader

I used to be really bad at falling asleep. I'm not talking 30 minutes or 45 minutes, but sometimes 3 whole hours without being able to get 1 second of sleep. I didn't even touch my phone once while in bed.

I also had a lot of trouble finding the right position in which to sleep to feel comfortable (not even talking about finding the right mattress/pillow combination).

Somehow, I trained myself at sleeping on my back (I was a big stomach sleeper). It's actually easier than you think. Couple that with counting backwards from 200 to 0 - and starting over whenever I reach 0 or forget where I was because my mind wandered - and I now fall asleep well within 1h on average.

Now I don't have any pain at all when I wake up, I don't need to spend hundreds on finding the right pillow/mattress combination and I have less trouble falling asleep. I don't actually think about it a lot, but I'm only in my 20s and I can't fathom the life problems I avoided solving this one early on. I'm really happy.

For people sleeping alone, this counting technique might be a nerdy alternative: http://www.dirk-loss.de/calmyourmind/

Moreover, I find Shinzen Young's reframing helpful: "Amazingly, it’s possible to get a good night’s rest without necessarily sleeping much or at all. Two things are required: (1) that the body get rest by lying very still and corpse-like. (2) that the consciousness get rest by engaging in a systematic focusing technique." https://www.shinzen.org/help-for-insomnia-yet-another-use-fo...

It’s called Kelno'reem

That only works if you have a snake in your belly though.

"Way to go, Junior!"

There is no possibility of this anyhow working. Sleep is not "mind rest", it's a neurological process completely different from and incompatible with consciousness.

You can relieve some fraction of cognitive fatigue by taking a mental break, but this compares to sleep in much the same way as duct taping a broken tool compares to mending it properly.

You're absolutely right. On the other hand, really extensive meditation can have some very strange effects on sleeping and some other things, so I personally withhold judgement.

If nothing else, take into account the studies that said that the placebo effect can actually help about 30% of people -- even if they know it's a placebo. So I don't know. Things get weird quickly.

> There is no possibility of this anyhow working.

I agree that this sort of rest is not equivalent to sleep. Nevertheless, this and similar techniques work well for reducing sleep anxiety. Less sleep anxiety tends to result in more and better quality sleep.

It may not alleviate the need for sleep altogether, but if you meditate a lot, like 10 hours a day, you can function well long-term with very little sleep.

I find that a good systematic focusing technique is to 'look' at the patterns inside your closed eyes when lying on your back. When I do this I see very little at first, maybe some fuzzy indistict patterns ... but then the patterns become progressively more detailed until I am in an interesting dreamlike state with fascinating visual effects and characters. Sometimes I find i can influence these dreams - I guess this is akin to lucid dreaming. A most entertaining way to fall asleep!

Will try this! Sounds like a good strategy to roll over to 200 once you reach 0. In the past when I tried the "endless counting" strategy that was still too much brain activity.

Counting backwards from 200 and starting over is easy enough to be done almost mindlessly, but at the same time hard enough to make you concentrate and thus keep your mind from wandering.

How did you train yourself to start sleeping on your back? I've been trying to stop side sleeping for a while due to some pains and postural concerns.

Pillow under my knees and a thin one to hold on my chest and fold my arms on top of helped me get used to sleeping on my back.

But look out for signs of sleep apnea; I only get it sleeping on my back, which I rarely do. Possibly in some cases sleep apnea might be part of why it doesn't feel comfortable to sleep on your back. The other issue that is worse for me when I end up on my back is my mouth drying out (not good for teeth).

This is quite common for people with obstructive sleep apnea (same here). More comfy for me, but i'm supposed to sleep sideways.

You can put pillows on the side to make it harder for you to roll on your side or stomach while asleep. It can also help alleviate some tension in the arms if you put them on top of it.

Depending on the mattress, you might have to put a pillow under your knees. Sometimes I don't and my legs begin to feel uncomfortable, and sometimes I can sleep just fine without support for my legs.

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