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Comment by jacobgorm | Hacker News Reader

When I first joined a US startup, they said "you can take unlimited PTO -- we suggest starting with a week per year"... I negotiated that up to the five weeks that are standard here in Denmark.

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"Unlimited PTO" is a red flag for me. It means that PTO will be governed by pressure, self-pressure and shame.

Also you do not get paid for leave you have accrued when you are terminated or quit.

That’s the entire reason for such policies. If it was coupled with coupled with truly top of market expectations (ie six weeks, including an annual 3 week vacation) I think it would be a fair trade off. But it often is not.

Exactly, I got into quite a heated discussion with a company that offered me a job with "unlimited PTO". They wanted me to sign in the contract with a clause along the lines of "you have unlimited PTO within reason". The whole point of contracts is that you have to explicitly define what is deemed "reasonable". I insisted they put a number to it and they refused.

Needless to say, I didn't accept the job in the end.

Eh I also wouldn't take that job. But why, really? If you're used to 35 days of PTO, and you take the same 35 days off at your new job, who are they to claim that whatever you're used to is unreasonable?

Exactly, ambiguous contractual agreements are always in favor of those with more power.

That is blowing my mind 2 weeks is generally considers standard for white collar work in the US, but companies that have unlimited PTO have a higher tolerance in my experience. I take off 5 weeks a year. I found that taking off a week a quarter and then whatever random emergency days was just right for me. It's why once I experienced unlimited PTO I never went back.

For unlimited PTO, I always like to ask “what are the median number of days taken?”

If they don’t know, that’s a red flag. Id expect it to be about 20-25 if it also includes sick leave. 30-40 means people really take the policy seriously.

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